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  #76  
Old 08-23-2005, 01:03 AM
mattdave
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Some more information

The compression test showed bad in only one cylinder. The engine is Turing over real strong for the first 15 minutes. Question about tow starting when you put it in gear going say 35MPH does it put a sudden real jerky load on the tow vehicle? Do I have to worry about ripping bumpers off or breaking rope? I am just wondering how hard of a yank it is going to give when put into gear it is no worry on a stick but I have never tow started an automatic and would like some idea of the drag when the towed car is put into gear are we talking whip lash or hardily noticeable. When tow starting a stick and putting it in 3rd gear the tow vehicle hardly feels any pull. I believe there is a lot of carbon built up it is a hunch but I would bet money on it. I also don’t understand when we pulled injector 1 it is obvious that injector is leaking down but injector 4 has engine oil on the bottom of the injector a lot of engine oil how could that get in the pre-chamber and all the way up to the bottom of the injector we are talking a 3 or 4CC of oil up there This baffles me. Is the correct gas to use as engine starting fluid for a diesel a small amount of propane?
Thanks for any help
Dave S

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  #77  
Old 08-23-2005, 07:10 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: central Texas
Posts: 17,281
I think you need to find another way than towing the car to start it...
YES, you would need to worry about tearing the bumper off.....
the fact that you would need to ask that question means you are short of experience on this type subject at this point in your life....
We don't know what other unsafe concepts you are dealing with... so don't pull start the car yourself....
Pulling would only be done with the tow rope attached to the same type spot which a trailer would towed from .... something which would transfer the load to something strong like the FRAME.... and our cars don't even have a frame in that sense of the word.
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  #78  
Old 08-23-2005, 09:30 AM
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Oil in coolant: I haven't seen it in the radiator very often. You'd probably have to drain the block into a different container to see any, although the rust would probably absorb it. One of the old tricks is to take a match to the dipstick. If there's a lot of water in the oil then the oil will spatter when it burns.

If it was me then as the next step I'd take the injectors to the shop and have them checked for crack and spray. Perhaps they're leaky, which happens when you get water in the fuel. The water turns to steam and blows the tips off. When running down the road you'll get a big puff of white smoke when the injector blows (which you won't see now). Then check the timing while the injectors are in the shop.

Pull starting an automatic isn't easy. You can't drag the clutch because you don't have one. Some people say to start off in drive, which I've never done successfully with a gasser/auto as the wheels always dragged. There will be a jerk and the drive wheels will turn or drag. It's one of those iffy deals with drivetrain, too. You should use a pickup or old car with a frame hitch. The benz should have a tie-down loop in the right front (daBenz does). With or without a tie-down you'll need to make sure you can figure out a way to keep the strap below the bumper.

This is from my owner's manual:
Towing of vehicle with automatic MB transmission: Set selector lever in position "N". In this position, the speed should, however, not exceed 30mph (50 km/h), otherwise damages of the transmission will be the result. For longer towing distances or with damaged transmission flange off universal shaft at rear axle. [I think this means take flange off at rear axle].

Tow starting a vehicle with MB automatic transmission: Use a long tow cable or tow bar. Turn the idle adjustment knob clockwise all the way to the stop. Place the selector lever in the neutral position ("N"). Turn the key in the steering lock to the number "2" position and pull the starter-glow plug knob to "run" position.

Then tow the vehicle until a speed of 25-30 miles (40-50 km) is reached. Drive at this speed for about 2 minutes to circulate the oil in the clutch and control systems, and at the same time preglow the plugs as long as the ambient temperatures require (see chart on page 16). [I'd glow the whole time] Pull the glow plug knob to starting position [that doesn't make sense] and bring the selector lever to "2" position [I would use high gear and make sure the wheels are turning]. Do not touch the accelerator pedal until the engine runs smoothly. As soon as the engine has started, immediately move the selector lever back to "N" position. Adjust the idle speed control for proper idle.

The same procedure may be used for starting the engine while rolling downhill. Caution: Remember, however, that until the engine is running, the power steering and power brakes do not offer assistance and considerable additional effort is required to steer and stop the car. (See Section III - Brakes.)"

Remember hand signals. Stop (arm down) tells the tow vehicle to slowly stop. Left turn (arm out) means pull. Right turn (arm up) means the engine is running but keep pulling. The tow vehicle should repeat the signal before taking action.
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Last edited by dabenz; 08-23-2005 at 09:42 AM.
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  #79  
Old 08-24-2005, 04:24 AM
mattdave
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Thanks more ?

Thank you for your input and I meant to tow it by the tie down hook well actual I am against tow starting or roll starting it because it is so old and it is an automatic transmission. When we tow a car with a tow strap we always have the towed car act as the brakes that also would not work out well with this car. Of course I knew better than to try ether too so I need to be warned not to due what I know is dumb sometimes. Leathermang a question to you how much oil can I safely put in the glow plug holes I think I may be so concerned about hydro locking the engine that the teaspoon full I put in may not be enough to effectively seal the rings I respect your mechanical knowledge of these engines and would like your opinion of a measurable quantity of oil to use and amount of time to wait after putting in the oil to start a car with low compression that could be the result of worn rings.
Thanks for your input there will probably be another attempt to start this car with oil in the glow plug holes Wednesday night this time cranking the engine first for 20 seconds or so to be sure the fuel system is all primed then adding oil and trying to start it. If that fails I think we will test all the injectors and the IP timing before seriously considering hauling a 50 gallon air compressor to the car to perform a leak down test. That will in all likely hood confirm the car needs a valve job and may have a blown head gasket does this sound like a reasonable way to proceed I just feel like I am overlooking something.
Dave S
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  #80  
Old 08-29-2005, 01:02 PM
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I agree to the remaining troubleshooting steps, but I'm very hesitant to do the push/pull starts though... so we will put this off for now.

I believe Mattdave inspected the injectors well, and we tested at least one of them outside. So I'd like first to repeat the test with the spoonful of oil in each cyl again, and then do the Leakdown test.

For Leakdown tests: Any ideas on how to lock this engine? Would setting the automatic transmission in "D" or "L" lock the engine?

Thx!
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  #81  
Old 10-23-2005, 01:59 PM
mattdave
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quick update

Update
The head gasket was blown machine shop confirmed this. 2 problems the machine shop is already a week late and now says the might have to shave the head were waiting to hear back from them. If they do shave the head then I need to worry about 1 that they keep to Mercedes specs 2 the pre-chamber spacers may need to be changed to achieve proper protrusion of pre-chamber from the head. Do the glow plug holes will need to be reamed out so the glow plugs are properly aligned since the pre-chamber has moved? If any one could explain this procedure, it would be greatly appreciated. The IP will need to be re-timed if they shave the head? The timing chain had three degrees of stretch due to budget restraints we were going to re use it. However, if they shave the head will that not effectively increase the timing error?
Scary potential problem some one broke into the garage they were kind enough to strip every thing off the head neatly tagging and bagging all the parts. However in there excitement to get too it they forgot to put the engine at TDC on the compression stroke. That will not be fun if the chain drops or jumps a tooth.
DHS
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  #82  
Old 10-23-2005, 02:12 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
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be sure

that if the head is warped they straighten it before skimming it. otherwise it will cause trouble with the cam towers.

whoever snuck into your shop has a warped sense of humor. he has been at work in mine too before!

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #83  
Old 10-23-2005, 06:54 PM
mattdave
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Tks

Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth
that if the head is warped they straighten it before skimming it. otherwise it will cause trouble with the cam towers.

whoever snuck into your shop has a warped sense of humor. he has been at work in mine too before!

tom w
Thanks I had not thought of that.
Dave S
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  #84  
Old 11-06-2005, 09:33 AM
mattdave
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update

The machine shop is finally done with the head it needed new exhaust valves which was an unfortunate expense.
Today we will have 3 hours at most to work on the car. I hope that it will go well and the head will be torque down and the cam tower will be installed any thing after that is just gravy. Slowly but surely it is moving along.
DHS
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  #85  
Old 11-18-2005, 02:20 AM
mattdave
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It RUNS

11:19 pm PST IT RUNS
Dave S
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  #86  
Old 11-18-2005, 09:33 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
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congratulations

for sticking with it!

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #87  
Old 11-18-2005, 01:15 PM
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She runs!

Folks, thx for all the help we got here and above all thx to Mattdave and his son for helping me out in person countless times...

I plan to post more info, but here are some thoughts that I'd like to capture before I forget. I know some of these may not agree with your experience, but I'm just describing my observations, ... I could be wrong;

- On simpler engines like this one, if fuel flow and timing look alright, and if the engine wouldn't start at all, it's gotta be compression problem even if compression measurements are within range or borderline. We kept postponing this one because we dreaded the thought, but we could've saved couple of months.

- The AC bracket (Frankenstein bracket as Mattdave likes to call it) is a pain... but eventually it could be removed to the side of the block for the cyl head removal without discharging the AC.

- If you stare long enough at the AC bracket, you will discover some holes and cut-outs the engineers did in it that must be used to facilitate hooking up the hoses and tightning clamps after putting the bracket on completely. The bracket will not go on with all the attachments (water pump housing, thermostat hoses, banjo pipe, return hoses) hooked up already. Naturally, if the hose clamps' screws were not facing those holes after assembly... you are out of luck!... bracket going off again

- We toiled with the idea of using headless bolts to put the AC bracket and pump housing in position first with all attachments and then replacing them one by one with the correct bolts, but we found out that the above method was better.

- The head comes off easily if you discover the 4 little 'a'-marked bolts in the manual. This drove us nuts...we had all the head bolts off, and the cyl head wouldn't budge until Mattdave spotted 2 of the 'a'-marked bolts down below the timing chain sproket, and 2 more outside

- The cyl head gasket kit is great vs. buying parts separately... but it is missing one crucial gasket, which goes on the water pump housing to block opening... pn # G3031-81575 from Fastlane... Phil has been great help rushing it to me.

- Local shops quoted me $2k to do this work. You are looking at $750 to $1k for parts + machining.

We still need to tighten the muffler and recheck timing, but it starts and my garage smells beautiful diesel... so I'm happy!

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