I'm considering buying an '84 Mercedes Diesel wagon (to replace my beloved, but dying '83 volvo wagon), and was hoping to get some advice from folks who know.

Details: It's an 84 wagon (assume 300td?), a european model, manual, 3rd seat in the back, 175K miles. Asking price is $3000.

So, in no particular order:

1) are these cars expensive to maintain? I've heard this said generally about Mercedes', but how bad is it?

2) Do these things run well on biodiesel?

3) Anything in particular I should be looking for when I look at this car? (Haven't actually seen it yet).

4) Is this a reasonable price for this car?

5) Anything else I should know before jumping in?

6) am I crazy for considering this?

any feedback will be appreciated,

thanks.

not as bad as you would think on most parts

Rust and general mechanical soundness

if it doesnt need much work

__________________
http://www.fairtax.org

these are some of the best MB's around, the ones that really earned the tank-like quality reputation MB now enjoys. This series of cars is refered to as a w123 chassis. I'll add my input to the questions you outlined below:


1) are these cars expensive to maintain? I've heard this said generally about Mercedes', but how bad is it?
Parts are plentiful and not too bad pricewise, luckily they last a long time so frequency of replacement is low. Also this is probably the world's best known Benz, meaning mechanics the world over know how to work on them, great if you're in Egypt, but in the US focus on reputable MB repair shops mainly due to the relative unpopularity if diesel...that's now changing


2) Do these things run well on biodiesel?

These are perfect cars to run on biodiesel, it's been tried and true for thousands of owners worldwide.

3) Anything in particular I should be looking for when I look at this car? (Haven't actually seen it yet).

General condition and rust, this forum has lots of info on these cars, do a little research. Rust is always a concern on these older cars, but check out the overall condition, if the car is clean inside/out and shows prideful ownership, then it probably has been well maintained mechanically. Change the oild and filters every 5k miles and they will keep on going otherwise.

4) Is this a reasonable price for this car?

Price is a subjective topic, these cars are in demand, particularly the wagons, so they tend to command greater prices. If the car is really clean and well maintained, records and all, then this is a good price, if just average, then it may be a bit on the high side. If you can have a qualified MB mechanic look it over before you buy, this can save you big $$$.

5) Anything else I should know before jumping in?

Generally no, just jump in, drive and change the oil....see you in another 300k miles

6) am I crazy for considering this?

Crazy is buying a ExpidHummerYatchuban spending 15min and $100 filling the tank only to get you from the BP to the Texaco down the street, can we say Groundhog Day? Wait til gas passes $3/gal and these cars will go UP in price. You should see somewhere beteen 25-30mpg on these cars, and if you use biodiesel, you'll be laughing all the way to the pump. Enjoy!

Thanks! This feedback is already quite valuable.

One more question I forgot originally : safety. I've been told that since this car is European orginally, saftey features might be different. Are there any safety concerns that I should know about? If this car isn't safe enough to confidently take 2 young kids in, it's not for me.

thanks.

The only safety differences are that US spec bumpers absorb more energy than Euro spec bumpers and US spec cars have side anti intrusion bars in the doors. Might actually help but they make it hell to service the windows If it was federalized to the letter when brought into the US then these safety features would have been retrofitted.

IMO any MB is a safe car. I'd focus on finding a car with the features I want in the best possible condition. Never mind where MB intended it to be driven.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

ABS and driver side airbag were available in Euro spec W123s and not in US spec W123s so there might be a bonus in it for you.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

If the wagon is a manual tranny, as some Euro's were, then that is almost the 123 Holy Grail for some folks. It will be a non-turbo, but the turbo for manual tranny swap would be preferable to many folks. If it has manual AC controls that would make many of us downright giddy.
Rust is a deal breaker, no matter the options. Wagons are great too! (even if they smoke )
Keep us posted, and take pics always.

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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

I agree safety has always been number one with MB, they take the cake with respect to innovations, safety cage, abs, airbag, SRS, etc.

Even recently Discovery channel ran a series on the disequity between big cars SUV's, and sub compacts to illustrate that you cant change physics.

Well the closing scene was shot in the UK with 30 or so sub compacts simulating stopped highway traffic, then comes along a early 80's S class at 70mph, and it plowed through 8-9 cars demolishing them and leaving destruction in its wake. The reporter walked up to the Benz noted that the windshield was intact, undamaged, opened the front doors effortlessly and noted that the ocupants of the MB would have suffered minor if any injuries, as to the other 8-9 cars...well you can't beat physics

Hummers watch out!, that big grille in your rearview mirror means business

Is the rear suspension on 123 wagons expensive to maintain?

Vahe
240D 77/350K

Iread on some thread last night that someone driving a W123 was slamed in a 100mph car chace this wreck killed 4 people... he walked away the car was totaled though.

__________________
http://www.fairtax.org

Maintain, no. Repair, can be depending on how long maintenance was neglected.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

I agree completely. You might have to buy a couple of accumulators, but nothing much breaks. You can find used components on ebay or on the site here, and usually for a reasonable price. It is actually a very simple system, and really makes the wagons handle well.

__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

smooth idle doesnt guarantee a good motor but a rough idle is definite sign of a problem. now a five cyl will bounce but not miss at idle. bounce is normal.

tom w

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

You aren't crazy for looking at one. I've had my '82 300D-Turbo for about 18 months and absolutely love it. There are many happy owners of these. I don't have a TD but they seem to be great- maybe even more desired than the sedans. I have heard that it's important to change the fluid in the self-leveling system that the TD's have regularly.

These are very safe cars for transporting young children. Like the other responses say, mainly look for rust. If rusty, would walk away from it. Be patient- there are a few more out there if this one doesn't work out, but it may take a while for one to turn up. As for price, a really good clean one with low miles could go for $7,000 or more.

SOME of the parts can be expensive to replace- for example the seat spring boxes and "horsehair" pads. The seat spring boxes can list for $350. for full retail, over-the-top, blowout prices through a dealer, but can be picked up for less through discount dealers or parts suppliers. For example, I got a spring box last Fall through a local discount parts dealer for $250., and that was the last one he had at that price. And the Euro hasn't been getting weaker against the dollar. But MOST of the parts are reasonable and available.

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Marshall Welch
Seattle, WA
1982 300D-T

There are two aspects of safety: active, and passive.
Active safety is the amount of control the driver can use to avoid accidents. While the W123 is not a sprts car, it does handle well for a vehicle of its size. the brakes are so well engineered that a single working brake will stop the car. You have 4 wheel discs.
Passive safety is what happens to the occupants during and after a crash. Mercedes pioneered this form of safety. The rgid safety cage protects the occupants while the ends of the car deform at a controlled rate to absorb the energy that is present during a crash. The door locks will keep the doors closed in a crash, yet are designed to open easily after the crash--the body will not deform so that the doors can be opened. The amount of thought that has gone into these cars to protect you and your children is hard to comrehend. Look at some of the crash pictures in the archives, very impressive.
One detail that I read somewhere----the predecessor to the W123 had its unit body welded with 6mm diameter welds at 25mm on centers--thats a 1/4 inch weld every inch around the entire vehicle. Pretty good welding pattern. Pretty good, but not good enough---the W123 is welded using the same 6 mm spot welds, but instead of one weld every 25 mm, the engineers cut the spacing to 10mm. So your W123 is nearly continously welded--a 1/4inch weld every 3/8 inch all around the car. A detai to be sure, and one you are not likely to ever notice. It won't make the ride better; it won't make the car quieter; it won't improve anything in daily use. But if that truly severe crash ever comes, the body shell is there, waiting to protect you and your children. I hope you never need it, but its nice to know all the same. For my money, you can keep you air bags and side curtains, etc, and give me the solid engineering of the Mercedes.