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  #1  
Old 08-30-2005, 04:59 PM
in over my head
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: deming washington
Posts: 3
about the manual transmission

i am putting a 4spd from a 240d in my jeep that now is powered by a mercedez 5 cyl td and automatic.

where do these trannies fail? heat, power, or both? what can i do to prevent these things.

why did they only make 5 spds for a few years?

can this four speed handle the turbo diesel?

my auto died and i don't want to rebuild it and i don't like to drive automatics.
anything will help
thanks

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  #2  
Old 08-30-2005, 06:30 PM
dieseldiehard's Avatar
Dieseldiehard
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bay Area No Calif.
Posts: 4,368
Heat is no problem. The synchros can fail from gashing gears (before the clutch is engaged) and also if the wrong fluid is used, they corrode if the brass alloy they are made from gets in contact with sulfur based lubricant. The best lube is RedLine MTF, a synthetic oil that allows smooth shifts during cold weather.
The problem with a turbo is timing shifts to allow boost to decay a little when you shift, then theres the turbo lag in the 617.95X turbodiesels, so you go thru this cycle everytime a gear change is required. The engine was setup to be used under continuous power for an automatic trans. I think the entire suspension in the 123 chassis is also too soft for a stickshift.
OTOH, I have seen several 5-cyl turbo engines retrofitted with a manual trans but never had the pleasure of driving one. AFAIK they hold up fine.

I believe MB decided not to offer many 5-speeds here because of the factory obeying MBNA's marketing preferences (I can imagine they said "sell them automatics even with AC and the funky climate control crap, nevermind that a 240D runs like a slug with that setup! After all they're Amerikans, they don't have an Autobahn and who cares that we keep all the 5 speeds for Europeans!")

Also there is the technical issue of boost not being compatible with a fast shift (mentioned earlier). MB did however sell lots of 5-speeds with NA (non turbo) engines in Europe and other countries.
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'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!
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  #3  
Old 08-30-2005, 07:02 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: central Texas
Posts: 17,281
Amen to the first answer..
if you had a chance before installing.... I think someone said that a particular brand turbo... and it may be the one installed on 1985 california vehicles had better low rpm manners.... this stuff is talked about in the archives....
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  #4  
Old 08-30-2005, 07:20 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,613
i think

you will find the tranny adequate as long as you dont abuse it by revving up and dumping the clutch and such as that.

i dont think that you will have any problem with compatability with the turbo motor.

mb stopped offering sticks on most cars here because they were seeing too many warrenty problems with clutches from poor drivers. also they prob never sold very many, except in sls and 240s.

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #5  
Old 08-30-2005, 07:56 PM
in over my head
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: deming washington
Posts: 3
thats what i like to hear.
can you tune the turbo to stop the lag.. or to stay wound up between gears?

i just installed pyrometer and boost gauge so i can pay more attention.
pretty excited to drive a stick again.
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  #6  
Old 08-30-2005, 08:07 PM
Brandon314159
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Posts: n/a
It sorta depends on what you plan on doing with your jeep.

If you plan on any sort of offroading and whatnot, the torque converter is a VERY nice thing to have (its like a big clutch!) and you can get away with it slipping without burning up a tranny as fast as on a stickshift.

If you went with the auto, tuned it properly, and installed a nice BIG external oil cooler for the transmission, I think it would perform nicely.

If you just want stickshift for stickshift reasons and only plan on using this car primarily on the road, I don't see any problems with the stick.
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  #7  
Old 08-30-2005, 08:27 PM
Mister Byrnzoil's Avatar
Currently Benzless :(
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palm Springs, CA
Posts: 777
divorced transfer case??

I hate the amc 360 in my jeep, it would be a dream come true to replace it w/ a NA 617+4 spd tranny, but it would mean replacing everything including the transfer case and axles... too big of a job for me.

do you have any pics of your setup?? I'm very interested in any specs

heres the PDF manual tranny manual... its BIG, like 50 megs or something... enjoy!

http://rbk3.com/mbz/trans/

Please rt click and save as.
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Robert
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  #8  
Old 08-31-2005, 12:22 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,613
btw

all the recent talk about neutral balanced flywheels and such.

i dropped off my spare 240 flywheel at the machinist to get it checked for balance and balance if it is not and document what is done. i have it for a 617 conversion so no need to worry about it being balanced with the original 240 crank because it is off and i have no idea what engine it came from. when it comes back it will be neutral for sure. and we'll find out if it required balancing to get that way.

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #9  
Old 08-31-2005, 12:29 AM
in over my head
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: deming washington
Posts: 3
this is my everyday vehicle. the extent of off roading is nasty loggin roads and getting into the backcountry in the winter. not a rock crawler or anything. the end goal is to have a realy functional fuel efficient vehicle. that runs on the fat of the land.... not a hot rod or a monster truck. i had the jeep and it has so much space to work on and in.
i used a rockwell divorced transfercase and had to fabricate all the mounts and crossmembers. very interesting for a first try.

i'll take some pictures when its rolling again. i now have about 200 hours into this project. i'm very happy with the power. better than the 4.2l by far and gets incredible milage.

i realy apreciate all the helpfull info. i don't know much about mercedez but i love running bio diesel.
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  #10  
Old 08-31-2005, 01:18 PM
Brandon314159
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Show us some pictures!
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  #11  
Old 12-21-2007, 10:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 30
You would be much better off to swap a ford t18 or 435 and a married 205 transfer case in this. It will bolt in with a little machine work and works great! I have a t18 and a bw1345 in mine and I love it but I would use the 205 if I do it again because my driveshaft came up a little short.
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2007, 10:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 30
Oh by the way how did you get the 5 cyl behind the front axle? My 4cyl just bearly fits.

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