Bringing this one back to life for a followup. I GOT IT STARTED. I swapped out the starter, found a car battery, jumped it from a running car, glowed multiple times, cranked alot in 10 second bursts with time for the starter to cool.

I didn't get to take it for a drive because I still had it up on stands and tires off from checking the brakes. By the time leveled out and idled on its own there was so much exhaust smoke in the garage I just let it run and went outside.

Is there anyway to check start of delivery for fuel without a drip tube or special tool? Any other suggestions to get rid of this gray exhaust smoke?

Thanks,
Glenn

Well, I will post my progress for those who search.

I have found that the bubble method requires no special tools to check the IP timing, but haven't done it yet. I tried cracking an injector while the motor was running to see if that would alleviate the smoke. I cracked number 4 and ran to the back to see if the smoke level changed. It did lessen some, but when I got back under the hood diesel was spraying everywhere. Not sure how much you are supposed to loosen the line or how others do it, but this was messy. I decided that was a big enough mess for the night and didn't crack any other lines. I guess I could try and wrap a rag around it being careful of the hot "W" wires for the glow plugs.

I got it to start a few more times. It starts a little easier, but still requires some cranking. Is diesel purge worth a shot? Should I just pull the injectors and find someone to test and/or rebuild them? Any other suggestions on what to look for with the grey smoke? I will keep searchin and postin.

Thanks,
Glenn

diesel purge is cheaper so try that first

__________________
Jason Green
1977 240D AUTOMATIC the Beast
1974 Super Beetle



Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

and are you sure all the glow plugs are working?

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I had it running about 45 minutes when I first had it going and about 20 minutes each for 2 or 3 times after that.

Yes, all the glow plugs are working. I waited a week to replace the one I broke when removing them to test them. (Yes, I did test them with an ohmmeter in the car too.)

I will have to try and track down some diesel purge.

Thanks,
Glenn

Another update. I took the car for a ride. It still smokes because I am waiting for my diesel purge. It could barely pull itself along at 55 miles an hour on flat ground. The trans didn't shift too bad, which should be helped by a flush and filter.

I now have the battery light on all the time (even with the key off). The only way to get it off is to pull the plug on the alternator, or disconnect the battery. So does anyone have suggestions for getting an alternator for cheap, or rebuild parts for cheap?

I have spent a good chunk of change recently to get this wreck running. Good news for the group is that when I get my compression tester and drip tool I will probably put them in the tool rental program.

Can't wait to purge, check the IP timing and compression. What should compression numbers be for an engine that is 120 degrees F? My car only gets up to that temp so maybe a thermostat is in order.

Thanks,
Glenn

hot comp test values.

my old chiltons from the seventies shows a minimum comp cold of 220 i think and top comp cold of about 320 at sea level. it will be less at higher altitudes.

good work so far. hope the comp tests out well.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I tried some Liqui Moly diesel purge last night to hopefully help my hard starting and smoking problems. Unfortunately, there was a miscommunication between my buddy and I and the car was unattended for about 2 minutes. During that time the return hose came out of the jug and pumped the purge onto the ground. Luckily for me I had bought an extra can and we still managed to get about a can and a half run through the car. I had fresh filters on the car and there was no black stuff in the prefilter like I have seen pictures of after the purge. It still smokes though.

I was having a bad auto repair night, so I figured I would just cut my losses and quit for the night instead of breaking injectors and lines trying to do a compression test. Hopefully when I get to that it will give me something to be thankful for for Thanksgiving. Otherwise it will give me something to ask for for Christmas.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Glenn

When I was running the diesel purge the car did not smoke at all. I have been trying to figure out if this could be an indicator of something in particular. I finally concluded that it probably just means the purge is more easily ignitable than normal diesel can relieve smoke even if the compression is low, the injectors are bad or the IP timing is off. Someone speak up if my logic is flawed.

Also, I had my voltage regulator out of the alternator because it wasn't charging and I wanted to look at the brushes. Well, I put the regulator back in and the alternator started smoking. The funny thing is the car wasn't even on. How does that happen? I pulled the plug to the alternator and the smoking stopped.

Tomorrow I hope to do the compression test. The car never gets up to operating temp and I haven't invested in a T-stat yet. So, should I plug the block heater in and get my 100F temp or just test with 10F block? I am wondering if a semi warm block will give me bad results for the cold compression test specs.

Thanks,
Glenn

I did a compression test tonight. Pulled all the lines an injectors. The IP was still wired open from checking the IP timing. The block was cold and the temperature was about 40F and I am at about 1200 feet elevation above sea level. I don't have the Chilton's manual with the cold compression test numbers so could someone look them up for me (Tom W. if you would be so kind). Please tell me I screwed something up because my numbers don't look good.

1- 180psi
2- 195psi
3- 300psi (double checked)
4- 100psi

I noticed some motor oil on the injector tips for injector 2 and 3, but the intake looked pretty clean (only a film of oil) and the hose from the vacuum pump was spotless. I also added some oil to #4 to see if the number would come up but, it didn't. The battery was about 1/3 expired according to the gauge on the charger, but the motor turned with good speed. I guess I can check my valves again. Then maybe try with the block heater or should I spring for a new thermostat and get the motor up to temp and test again? I think it will be a lost cause at this point though.

My IP timing was 20 degrees BTDC via the drip method and I have 6 degrees chain stretch by lining up the cam marks, so I think that is close enough not to cause the smoking and hard starting. Am I wrong with that assumption?

I am open to suggestions on what to do now with the $350 ride.

Thanks,
Glenn

Wondering if a lot of rings are kind of hung up from poor storage conditions for the five years. Perhaps a lot of on/off heating and cooling cycles might loosen them or perhaps even a good drive or two to see if any improvement occurs. Do not know if rusty faced valves could cause that much compression drop. Perhaps others could shed a little light. Kind of seems strange that only one cylinder tests really high but on the otherhand also indicates engine does not have equal wear across the engine or it would be low to some extent as well.

spec is about 220 min. cold 300 is pretty good. a high of about 330 is poss cold. i think you may just need to adjust valves. if you havent already. the one cyl at 300 may be the true indicator of wear and the others may be tight vavles. also could be stuck rings. i would check vavle clearance adjust as needed and drive it. at the numbers you note it will be hard to start in cold weather but should run fine after started. but not really smooth with the differences. i doubt rust would form on the valves the metal in them is so tough they dont seem to rust. you still may have a good one there, just keep at for a while more and you will find out for sure.

good work so far. it is kindof like archeology bringing the old idle ones back isnt it? fun.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I have already adjusted the valves, but will double check my work. The car has run several times, but the t-stat must be bad because it never really get to operating temp (only about 120) even with hard driving. I will replace that and try again.

My engine rebuilding friends sometimes puts penetrating oil in the cylinder to help with rings. Maybe I will try that. Any reason not to with a diesel?

Wish I could just drive it now, but with it not starting in the cold I won't be able to do it until spring/summer here in Wisconsin.

Thanks for all the advise guys,
Glenn

Lots of mentioning that these engines do not store well long term in poor conditions. The cast rings can develop rust plus there is the piston material that can develop aluminium oxide a kind of oxidation particular to aluminium in the piston lands. Unfortunatly the aluminium oxide is a very tough customer (used to make aluminium oxide sandpaper for example) compared to the oxidation or rusting of cast iron and steel rings. If a ring is restricted or frozen in the piston land by these products extended usage may start to loosen them back up so the rings can flex in and out sealing the bore much better. But my fear is the oxide of aluminum may be persistent if well developed and may never release the rings totally again without removing the pistons and cleaning the lands out. I would just drive the car on lots of short trips and redo the compression test in a month or two. Perhaps if engine is recovering to a noticeable extent you need not do the compression test but just continue to drive it and see if improvement continues to occur. Make the engine work hard to raise piston temperatures from time to time. Hills are great. You are trying to use expansion and contraction to break the grip of the oxides if that is the problem. Plus there is an attempt by the rings to respond to the change in travel direction every other stroke that helps as well to some extent unless rings are frozen solid. Cannot think of any additives that would help particularily but there might be some out there that are not snake oil. But then again you probably know all of the above.

Thank you for the excellent explanation of my probable situation Barry. I will ask my engine builder if he knows of any product in particular that may help. Anyone here have any product suggestions that would help loosen stuck rings without piston removal?

As long as the injectors are all out and I know a place that will test them for free, I am going to have that done. Maybe if the spray pattern was bad it may help with the smoking if they were repaired.

I wish the car was reliable enough to drive when I have destinations. Right now, even with the block heater and new battery it will often kill the battery before the car starts. It makes it hard to take on a lot of short trips. We will see, maybe the injectors will need to be refurbed and that may help with this too.

Thanks,
Glenn