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  #16  
Old 11-02-2005, 10:46 AM
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diesel prices

The price of crude, gas, diesel, heating oil etc are more a function of the price that oil future's speculators bid than current supply and demand. The recent hurricane, the behavior of OPEC, these type's of the thing's drive up the speculator's bid on future's contracts. So, be it hurricane, or even nothing as cause, it is the future's speculation that determine's price even more than supply and demand. A return to normal production or reduced demand doe's not necessitate a fair price to the consumer. The supplier's/refiner's/importer's all take advantage of the situation causing the oil future's contract's to stay at elevated prices.

In the early day's of refining crude to heating oil and other useful products, the gasoline was flared off, much as natural gas is flared off at the crude well today. Whether it was Ford or someone else who first developed an internal combustion engine that would burn gasoline, that was a milestone in energy use's in the State's.
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  #17  
Old 11-02-2005, 11:22 AM
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I believe that the cost of diesel is high for a reason. Higher transport costs add to the price of literally everything. This is going to cause inflation. Our president, in his infinite wisdom, will recommend passing a national energy bill. What it will amount to is giving tax dollars straight to the oil companies.

Just like the way we feed the pharmaceutical companies. They charge what they want, and the government pays it.

If you haven't realized it, lobbyists decide what happens here.
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2005, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983/300CD
I believe that the cost of diesel is high for a reason. Higher transport costs add to the price of literally everything. This is going to cause inflation. Our president, in his infinite wisdom, will recommend passing a national energy bill. What it will amount to is giving tax dollars straight to the oil companies.

Just like the way we feed the pharmaceutical companies. They charge what they want, and the government pays it.

If you haven't realized it, lobbyists decide what happens here.
Transport costs?

Thats a lie if they tell you that.

There is a tank farm on Picket streat in Fairfax...

It supplies most of the area for miles...

Fuel prices 50 miles away with fuel delivered from this tank farm is usually 50 cents a gallon cheaper than fuel 1/4 mile down the street. Not the other way around.
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2005, 01:37 PM
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Not sure what you're talking about, but if you ship ANYTHING cross country in a big rig, it will cost you more than it did two years ago because diesel is more expensive.

If you can tank up in Fairfax for a lower price, GREAT!
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2005, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983/300CD
Not sure what you're talking about, but if you ship ANYTHING cross country in a big rig, it will cost you more than it did two years ago because diesel is more expensive.

If you can tank up in Fairfax for a lower price, GREAT!
What I was saying is fuel deliverd 50 miles from this tank farm is 50 cents cheaper per gallon than fuel delivered 1/4 down the street from the same tank farm...

Point being is the oil companies have totally arbitrary pricing policies that have little bearing on actual wholesale costs.
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  #21  
Old 11-02-2005, 02:29 PM
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I agree with what your saying....pretty much anyway.

It's been a practice for years to use profits from one area to offset lower profits from another.

In other words some weenie driving a desk decided that noone at point B 50 miles away from the tank farm would buy Petro at full price so he decided to up the price at point A 1/4 mile from the tank farm to compensate.

danny
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  #22  
Old 11-02-2005, 03:25 PM
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btw... I forgot to mention when I started this post, have two huge refineries here in North Salt lake and we still get bent over the barrel on fuel. We also refine alot of crude that is domestically drilled in Utah and Wyoming.

I think the Lobbyist's area huge problem and the fact bush is for big oil ... we won't see relief until the next election. ... I voted for GW but I think he is ignoring the problem.
I think that dude from Saudia Arabia said it best on the barbara walters special.
"we are enjoying great profits from the US but we are not the ones causing the price increases.. it is the oil companies and I am concerned about it."
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  #23  
Old 11-02-2005, 03:44 PM
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NJ refines 20% of oil in the US. No oil source around here. We are supposed to have one of the lowest fuel prices in the nation.
What is the ceiling price of diesel Hawaii set?
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  #24  
Old 11-02-2005, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennett
btw... I forgot to mention when I started this post, have two huge refineries here in North Salt lake and we still get bent over the barrel on fuel. We also refine alot of crude that is domestically drilled in Utah and Wyoming.

I think the Lobbyist's area huge problem and the fact bush is for big oil ... we won't see relief until the next election. ... I voted for GW but I think he is ignoring the problem.
I think that dude from Saudia Arabia said it best on the barbara walters special.
"we are enjoying great profits from the US but we are not the ones causing the price increases.. it is the oil companies and I am concerned about it."
You honestly believe that? Boy are you in for a shock.....

Bush has nothing to do with the price of crude......internation demand and particularly the Chinese recent thirst for oil does...
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  #25  
Old 11-02-2005, 03:46 PM
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That's true. Saudi Arabia has no interest in high fuel prices. They have always worked hard to keep prices level. In fact they just recently voted to increase production.
They don't want it too cheep where they don't make any money. And they don't want it so expensive that we don't purchase enough through cutbacks and alternate fuel cars.

Danny
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  #26  
Old 11-02-2005, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
You honestly believe that? Boy are you in for a shock.....

Bush has nothing to do with the price of crude......internation demand and particularly the Chinese recent thirst for oil does...
He may not be the cause or the solution but you can't ingore the facts.
1-Bush IS for big oil. His whole family smells like crude.
2-His energy bill did nothing to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
3-He is the head of the free world. To say he can't do anything is just plain foolish.

Danny
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  #27  
Old 11-02-2005, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannym
He may not be the cause or the solution but you can't ingore the facts.
1-Bush IS for big oil. His whole family smells like crude.
2-His energy bill did nothing to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
3-He is the head of the free world. To say he can't do anything is just plain foolish.

Danny
#1 As opposed to the democrats who have been pro oil too....Right back to John F Kennedy for example who created The Oil depleation allowance for oil companies...

#2 Don't see a lot of democrats jumping on microcars like the Kia Rio and ford escort...I see a LOT or democrats in Ford Excursions etc...judging by Kerry stickers...
Ever here of personal responsibility?

#3 Oh right...we dictate the price of oil...I forgot..OPEC is just a front company for the RNC....
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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  #28  
Old 11-02-2005, 04:00 PM
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The other day I was discussing this with one of my suppliers. Let's say a store owner tells his customers that he has doubled his prices because of demand. Supply has remained constant. I'm just saying that I can get more, so I am charging more. That's a valid reason? I don't think so.

Especially not when the price increase impacts the entire economic structure of the nation. But that was W's position on it when he told the country why oil prices doubled.

"Point being is the oil companies have totally arbitrary pricing policies that have little bearing on actual wholesale costs." That's what I've been saying. They make up any number they want. The fact remains that the national average is double what it was two years ago. Fairfax, 1/4 mile from Fairfax, and even 50 miles from Fairfax, it's all doubled.

And the numbers came in. Record earnings across the board for the oil companies. Did you really think they were going to lose money because of the hurricanes? RECORD earnings.

And since when did this turn partisan? This isn't republican vs. democrat. This is the Corporation vs. J.Q.P. And it's not a fair fight.

Everyone should see "The Corporation". It is a good documentary very relevant to this subject.

Last edited by 1983/300CD; 11-02-2005 at 04:11 PM.
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  #29  
Old 11-02-2005, 05:30 PM
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Doing some internet searching in the past-

There are references which show that less diesel can be made per barrel over gasoline. It is probably more flexible these days, but I seem to remember somthing like 33 gallons (gas) or 31 gallons of diesel. I'm sure it's in some petro engineering textbook.


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  #30  
Old 11-02-2005, 06:51 PM
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I saw this idea on a local VW board I visit when ya'll get too old and fogey for me =

The reason diesel prices are high right now (going into winter) is becuase all the "production lines" (read: refineries) that could make diesel are making heating oil for the winter - supplies of diesel drop and prices go up. Heating oil prices will still be "up" this year, but maybe someone who monitors the price of heating oil can tell us:1) has it gone up as much as diesel
2) has it stayed steady
or 3) Has it oscillated like RUG ?

if the answer is 2 or 3, then I'd consider that evidence to backup my theory. If heating oil prices have escalated in percentage close to their road-going counterparts (diesel) then my theory is wrong. Big surprise =)

anyone ?

-John
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