Cam gear missing the tips of some teeth! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

samiam4 · #16 11-04-2005, 12:03 PM

Post some pictures....

It's hard estimate wear and the damage without pics. Yes, there was a service TB to check the chains- there was period which timing chains could wear greatly.
How's the vacuum pump?

Michael

New2MB · #17 11-04-2005, 12:06 PM

Any reason I can't do the crank gear while it's in the car? I was going to do the water pump and alternator anyway so I'm going to get the radiator out of the way.

New2MB · #18 11-04-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samiam4

Post some pictures....

It's hard estimate wear and the damage without pics. Yes, there was a service TB to check the chains- there was period which timing chains could wear greatly.
How's the vacuum pump?

Michael

I can't see the crank gear, I was trying to figure out from other people's experience if the crank gear is worn because the cam gear has some missing teeth. I would assume the vacuum pump is fine?

boneheaddoctor · #19 11-04-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New2MB

I can't see the crank gear, I was trying to figure out from other people's experience if the crank gear is worn because the cam gear has some missing teeth. I would assume the vacuum pump is fine?

Not a good idea to assume that.....a few members here have had catastrophic failures that caused major damage.....I'm sure they will jump in soon.

samiam4 · #20 11-04-2005, 12:26 PM

I'd look hard at the vacuum pump-

I believe there life in my experience is somewhere in the 160-180,000 mile range. They are known to have the brgs drop ball bearings in 603 engines. That would or could easily be an engine killer. Heck, if it has been replaced recently-that might even be the reason for the missing teeth.

If you've got the pump off, check the teeth on the sprocket and look at the vacuum pump cam surface. Those are known to need replacement.

Michael

New2MB · #21 11-04-2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samiam4

I'd look hard at the vacuum pump-

I believe there life in my experience is somewhere in the 160-180,000 mile range. They are known to have the brgs drop ball bearings in 603 engines. That would or could easily be an engine killer. Heck, if it has been replaced recently-that might even be the reason for the missing teeth.

If you've got the pump off, check the teeth on the sprocket and look at the vacuum pump cam surface. Those are known to need replacement.

Michael

Well I'm glad you mentioned it. To be honest, I can't even identify the vacuum pump underhood. I'm about to head out to the garage right now so I'll see if I can get the vacuum pump out and have a look. While I'm at it, are there any other misc. components I should be checking and replacing? I want to have the alternator rebuilt and I'm going to R&R the water pump, thermostat, timing chain, chain guides, chain tensioner, cam gear, crank gear, serpentine belt, and of course the gaskets for everything. Anything else I should do while I'm in the area?

New2MB · #22 11-04-2005, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Not a good idea to assume that.....a few members here have had catastrophic failures that caused major damage.....I'm sure they will jump in soon.

Ignorance is bliss, thanks for the info.

boneheaddoctor · #23 11-04-2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New2MB

Ignorance is bliss, thanks for the info.

both of mine run a OM617...but I know all obout the OM603 vacuum pumps.....

New2MB · #24 11-04-2005, 02:55 PM

So I just went out to the garage. I pushed the car back to get some more room and what do I see on the floor but a nice little puddle of oil. I get under to have a closer look and see that the passenger side of the block is covered in oil. That's the last straw, the engine is coming out. (and I want my stapler back)

samiam4 · #25 11-08-2005, 09:50 AM

Your really in the relm of getting the pro-wrenches on the list answer questions...

I'd guess your oil leakage is probably a minor thing -passenger side would not be uncommon.

I still haven't seen a picture on the missing camshaft sprocket teeth, so my comments are blind. Generally, minor wear say 0.001 per link adds up to a bunch of length. But 0.001 or so is not enough to create significant teeth wear. If teeth are missing- that is really strange b/c the chains will ussually snap.
talk to some pros here... I've done M117 timing chains and upper guides but never personally fixed an engine which suffered a broken chain. Maybe, your car had a vacuum pump failure which snapped the chain. You maybe do doing cleanup work.

If you get on mercedesdigest.com, might ask Stu Ritter or george for their inputs. I'd hate for you to expend a bunch of time and $$ if not needed.

Michael

samiam4 · #26 11-08-2005, 10:03 AM

Oh alternator rebuids...

On these MB's the regulator/brush pack is easily replaceable. You can do that a few times and the just replace the whole thing.

Other things- the tensioner for the fan belts must be tight and should be locktited in the timing cover. Yea.. that's right on a 603 the cover *IS* replaceable item. You might have much better access than the older models.

You need an MB service CD to do all this work.

Michael

New2MB · #27 11-08-2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samiam4

Your really in the relm of getting the pro-wrenches on the list answer questions...

I'd guess your oil leakage is probably a minor thing -passenger side would not be uncommon.

I still haven't seen a picture on the missing camshaft sprocket teeth, so my comments are blind. Generally, minor wear say 0.001 per link adds up to a bunch of length. But 0.001 or so is not enough to create significant teeth wear. If teeth are missing- that is really strange b/c the chains will ussually snap.
talk to some pros here... I've done M117 timing chains and upper guides but never personally fixed an engine which suffered a broken chain. Maybe, your car had a vacuum pump failure which snapped the chain. You maybe do doing cleanup work.

If you get on mercedesdigest.com, might ask Stu Ritter or george for their inputs. I'd hate for you to expend a bunch of time and $$ if not needed.

Michael

I pulled the radiator and fan to have a better look, so far I can't see anything new other than a bit of black sludge on the passenger side between the head and block. I doubt the head gasket is leaking though because the car ran good- wasn't burning fluid and temp's stayed normal (I think). I figure that the oil leak must be from the pan or a sensor because it leaks when it hasn't been run in several weeks now.

I tried taking some pictures but the lighting just isn't conducive to it. The teeth are not worn, they are broken. You can see the jagged fracture marks where the teeth broke off. I can only see about 200 degrees of the cam gear and there are 3 teeth missing, probably more on the other side.

I am thinking of attempting to do the crankshaft timing gear, camshaft gear, timing chain, tensioner, timing chain guides, water pump, alternator rebuild, trans cooler lines, vacuum pump, fan clutch, and serpentine belt while I'm in there.

I just want to make sure that there is no need to pull the engine, if it is necessary then it would be alot easier to change all these things once the engine is out.

So far I don't think I have a definitive reason to pull the engine.

New2MB · #28 11-12-2005, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samiam4

Post some pictures....

It's hard estimate wear and the damage without pics. Yes, there was a service TB to check the chains- there was period which timing chains could wear greatly.
How's the vacuum pump?

Michael

I was finally able to get a decent picture of it...

samiam4 · #29 11-12-2005, 03:31 PM

That is VERY strange...

First, I don't see a bunch of wear or anything that would cause a tooth to break like this!

Michael

New2MB · #30 11-12-2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samiam4

That is VERY strange...

First, I don't see a bunch of wear or anything that would cause a tooth to break like this!

Michael

There's 2 more broken on the other side of the gear as well, engine runs fine though. I've got my oil sender out right now so I'm going to stick a magnet in the oil pan and see if I can find anything.