Mercedes 123 body Unsafe death trap??? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Mr.Kenny · #1 11-07-2005, 09:57 AM

I was looking for a safe slow solid car for my teen daughter to drive and I thought the 123 240d or 300d was a safe car in an accident. After a call to my insurance co. and a quote for just ME driving... a 300d is 50% higher than my 90 corolla & 91 miata both much safer cars according to crash tests and real world injury/death payouts. ....I only carry liability, not comprehensive.
I was just hashing this info over in my head; and then witnessed a really violent head on/ offset accident between a honda crv and a small chrysler new yorker. I was 30 feet away and I thought "oh man somebody is dead or badly injured".... amazingly both cars were completely totalled, but nobody was hurt. All the safety stuff (air bags)and the design of the cars did their jobs. A 6 year old girl was in the front passenger seat of the crv on the side it was hit. She was completely scratch free, no bruises pain or anything.
So why the heck does a solid safety car like a Mercedes rate so low?? Because No air bags? Or is the body too stiff? (And to think I was considering a 240z or an old beetle for her.)
I found more eye opening crash results at...
www.crashtest.com
A list of cars is at the bottom of the page.

ALSO... Does anyone have any safety crash info about older mercedes; the 450sl & 380sl?
I really would like some more info about the safety of these cars.

The Results below are listed in the following left to right order: (F=Frontal impact; S=Side impact)
(All impacts are measured in the front seats except passenger side impacts which are measured in the rear seat.)
Year--- |Make and Model |Doors| Weight | Driver (F) Pass | Driver (S) Pass |

1990--- Mercedes Benz 190E--- 4Dr-- 3058 (*** ) (*** )
1980--- Mercedes Benz 240D--- 4Dr-- 3714 (** ) (* )
1984--- Mercedes Benz 300SD-- 4Dr-- 4270 (*** ) (**** )
1994-97 Mercedes Benz C220--- 4Dr-- 3190 (**** ) (**** )

phidauex · #2 11-07-2005, 10:37 AM

The Mercedes 123 series is a very safe car. For the early 80's!

I feel safe in my Mercedes, but its because most of my cars have been older, crappier cars, not fancy new ones.

The design is good, but they didn't have the technology then that we have now. If raw safety was my highest goal in a car, I'd get a mid-size to compact Japanese or Volkswagen sedan with ABS and front and side impact airbags. Most modern cars have more advanced crumple zones, better reinforced passenger compartments, airbags, stronger roll cages, etc.

However, there are many new cars that score low on crash tests (or other measures of safety), such as pickup trucks. I'd rather my 16 year old daughter drive a Mercedes 123 than a modern (or old) pickup truck (which tend to have very poor safety ratings). But even though the 'best' of 1979 isn't as good as the 'best' of today (is it ever?), the 'best' of 1979 can still be better than the marginal of today.

Also, there are more factors to automotive choice than just crash test ratings. If you want your daughter to get some practice with basic auto maintainence, its better to get started on an easy to work on car, and if you expect her to spill sodas all the time, have her dirty friends wrestle in the back, and fill the trunk with soiled baseball equipment all the time, you may want something of a beater. If you expect her to be a leadfoot, then a car that gets lower crash test ratings, but that is a slower car might be safer, if you expect HER excessive speed to be the cause of an accident.

I learned to drive in a '62 Beetle, and while it was a squirrely little car, it gave me a lot of practice I wouldn't have normally gotten, and I ended up being a more confident driver in newer cars than my friends who had never driven a standard transmission w/out ABS. ABS seems to work better when you understand what its doing and why, instead of just freaking out when it starts vibrating.

Anyway, hope that helps a little, though I know I didn't give you anything conclusive.

peace,
sam

nazrat · #3 11-07-2005, 10:38 AM

This is a rolled W123 sedan:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1978-Mercedes-300D-Bio-Diesel-Engine-running-parts-car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6783QQitemZ8006768201

W123 Wagon:
http://www.surfblau.de/crash123T.jpg

More hard crash pics at:
http://www.surfblau.de/crash.html

Almost a W123:
http://www.surfblau.de/crashW116Capri1.jpg

In my family we have had several accidents in 123 sedans. Most of the time we were the ones that were run into. I think that the most serious injury was a cut in someone's mouth from the saltine that they were eating. Several of the Mercedes involved were totalled in the process though. One 240D was hit by 3 Hondas. All 3 were totalled. Only the 3rd accident totalled the Mercedes.

Seeing other vehicles that were in accidents as well as the Mercedes cars, I feel very safe in a Mercedes.

-Tad

phidauex · #4 11-07-2005, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Kenny

The Results below are listed in the following left to right order: (F=Frontal impact; S=Side impact)
(All impacts are measured in the front seats except passenger side impacts which are measured in the rear seat.)
Year--- |Make and Model |Doors| Weight | Driver (F) Pass | Driver (S) Pass |

1990--- Mercedes Benz 190E--- 4Dr-- 3058 (*** ) (*** )
1980--- Mercedes Benz 240D--- 4Dr-- 3714 (** ) (* )
1984--- Mercedes Benz 300SD-- 4Dr-- 4270 (*** ) (**** )
1994-97 Mercedes Benz C220--- 4Dr-- 3190 (**** ) (**** )

Also, these numbers are interesting... The 123 and 126 bodies are not all that different, but your numbers give the 123 a 2/1, and the 126 a 3/4, which is more like what I would have guessed for the 123.

Anyway, just wanted to point that little oddity out.

peace,
sam

#5 11-07-2005, 10:49 AM

I would assume that the W123s low ratings have to do with their lack of air bags. Remember that this body has been around since 1976 when safety standards were quite different than they are today. I'm not surprised that a 30-year old design is rated poorly. However, I'm sure the W123 is MUCH safer than a bug or 240Z.

As much as I like W123s (and dislike airbags) for my personal use, I don't think I would buy one for my kids. I still have a couple of years, but it's more likely my kids will get a 190(E or D) or a W124 (or maybe a used Jetta, 3-series BMW, etc.). You have to almost expect that a new driver will have at least one accident, so IMHO airbags are critical. I don't think my kids need a SL to drive to high school, but a reliable benz with modern safety equipment is probably appropriate.

Pete Burton · #6 11-07-2005, 10:58 AM

I've posted this before, but FWIW...An acquainance of mine has managed the auto test track for Consumer Reports for many years. It's in East Haddam, CT where I lived for 13 years. He's about as much of a total car nut as you'll ever meet. He bought a 300SD for his wife because he felt it was an extremely safe car. He said that the combination of overall frame stiffness, roof structure, door latches, crushable interior components, etc. were unique at the time. I had already had my car for a good 5 years when we talked about this.

If I was buying a car for my teenage daughter, I would still consider the 300SD. However, I would try to get one with an air bag and ABS, which are worthwhile mechanisms.

Mr.Kenny · #7 11-07-2005, 11:00 AM

""As much as I like W123s (and dislike airbags) for my personal use, I don't think I would buy one for my kids. I still have a couple of years, but it's more likely my kids will get a 190(E or D) or a W124 (or maybe a used Jetta, 3-series BMW, etc.). ""

I Thought a 3 series would be safe too..... Just consider the year you buy first and how peformance oriented these bmws are. Do you remember what kind of a driver you or your friends were at 16? Maybe very stupid and invicinble? Maybe sane?

FYI;There are more result about the 3 seriies at
www.crashtest.com
The Results below are listed in the following left to right order: (F=Frontal impact; S=Side impact)
(All impacts are measured in the front seats except passenger side impacts which are measured in the rear seat.)
Year--- |Make and Model |Doors| Weight | Driver (F) Pass | Driver (S) Pass |

1985--- BMW 318i-------------- 2Dr-- 2944 (* ) (*****)
1990--- BMW 325i-------------- 2Dr-- 3398 (*** ) ( N/A )
1992--- BMW 325i-------------- 4Dr-- 3050 (**** ) (**** )
1995--- BMW 325i-------------- 4Dr-- 3234 (**** ) (**** )
1996-97 BMW 328i-------------- 4Dr-- 3234 (**** ) (**** )
To return to the top of the page click here.

#8 11-07-2005, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Kenny

I Thought a 3 series would be safe too..... Just consider the year you buy first and how performance oriented these bmws are. Do you remember what kind of a driver you or your friends were at 16? Maybe very stupid and invicinble? Maybe sane?

Good points, I suspect the differences in the BMWs have to do with airbags, as well. With regard to BMWs being "performance oriented," that may have more to do with marketing that actual performance. Fortunately(?), my kids are both girls so they may be less insane drivers than I was. BTW, I mostly rode motorcycles when I was 16 and I survived.

#9 11-07-2005, 11:51 AM

I believe that my 1985 300D is safer than my 1995 Chevy S-10.

boneheaddoctor · #10 11-07-2005, 12:00 PM

I would still rather be in either my W116 or my W123 in a frontal collision with a Smart or any number of tiny cars...

#11 11-07-2005, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncof300d

I believe that my 1985 300D is safer than my 1995 Chevy S-10.

My motorcycle is probably safer than your S-10.

IMHO, pick-ups are the worst. My POS Jeep isn't much better.

Pete Burton · #12 11-07-2005, 12:02 PM

I still remember what happened to my mom's 79 280E when my sister was driving it. She was T-boned on the driver's side by a full size Ford van, pushed ACROSS an intersection, landing below the van in a ditch. She was OK, drove it home, and my Uncle fixed the car.

phidauex · #13 11-07-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

My motorcycle is probably safer than your S-10.

IMHO, pick-ups are the worst. My POS Jeep isn't much better.

Its not just your humble opinion, most crash test and actual injury report studies show pickup trucks to be the least safe class of vehicle, both to the occupants of the vehicle, and the occupants of whatever they hit.

Pickups are meant for getting actual work done, not grocery getting or commuting. I shudder at all the coworkers of mine who drive trucks to work because its "Missouri" and they have to keep up their "rural" image. Of course, they've never put more than a beer cooler in the back, and they wouldn't think of doing any manual labor.

Anyway, the performance of a car is a consideration too. You don't want something too underpowered, but 90% of all cars in America are way OVER powered.

People are subject to three kinds of accidents.. Accidents that are completely unavoidable, accidents that aren't your fault, but that you could have avoided through observation, skill, or experience, and accidents that you expressly caused. Young people are no more subject to the first kind, but are a lot more subject to the second and third kind. You need a car with modest power and good handling to help alleviate the second kind (not your fault, but avoidable), but you need a car with not TOO much power to avoid the third kind (your fault), because young people (yes, even girls) have a tendency to drive too fast, or make poor decisions about turning speeds and passing speeds.

Also, and this is just a little editorial that you can completely ignore if you want, I would never buy a nice BMW (or any really nice car) for a 16 year old. For one thing, they will mess up anything you buy them, either with accidents, or filth, or dirty sports equipment, or whatever. They are kids, and kids destroy cars. Secondly, and this is the real editorial, I think kids should learn early on that good things come to those who work for it. As a parent, it is your job to provide safety and security, but not necessarily luxury (especially at the critical young-adult stage). Find a safe reliable vehicle, but its OK if it doesn't have many features (your 16 year old doesn't NEEED a CD player, regardless of what they claim), and its OK if it doesn't look good (in fact, it may be better if it comes 'pre dinged'). If your kid wants a nice 3-series, or any other fancy car, have them help you pay for it, have them help you restore a broken down one, or have them live with whatever 'basic' car you choose.

peace,
sam

InSaNeBoY · #14 11-07-2005, 12:18 PM

My first car was an 88 Saab 9000S automatic.

My parents bought it for safty reasons, and the fact that is was not exactly speedy... And I wrecked it, oh did I ever! Offset frontal collision with a tree. I hit hard enough to buckle the roof, but I walked away just lightly daised but otherwise totally fine.

On that note I remember reading that the 9000 was the safest car in sweden for a time, until they added airbags, which caused more injuries and dropped the car's rating (I beleve the Audi A4 took the 9000's spot when that happened)

In any case if I had a soon to be driving teen I'd be looking into a Volvo 240 as it's very safe, well built, relyable and slowwwww. Either that or a Saab, though the mantinance costs are a bit higher. or maybe 300SD with airbags and ABS

Austin85 · #15 11-07-2005, 12:34 PM

Last car a Jeep Cherokee. Sold it cause I didn't feel safe driving it...rollover; skidded in the rain....6 cylander was too peppy.

before that an 89 Volvo 740gl wagon, always felt safe; nice slow car.

before that an 88 Nissan Stanza; Felt safe but wouldn't want to take a hit in it.
I remember test driving a Mitsubishi Eclipse a while ago; and loved the look but way to much speed to drive safely.

Along with the Volvo wagon I feel just as safe driving my 300D as any car I've driven. My main point is if you want a safe car to drive; get a 4 or 5 cylander solidly built car and drive defensively....especially relevent to new drivers. Another recommendation would be to make sure they take driving lessons from a driving school....

I remember seeing a Nissan sentra get totalled from a side hit with 2 passengers a mom and a young kid.....Since then I always tap 2X before accelerating at an intersection by instinct.