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  #1  
Old 01-08-2006, 12:00 AM
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603 injector upgrade ?

Is there any place to buy upgraded injectors for an sdl for power increase. KermaTDI had OEMs for $19 but no power increase.

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  #2  
Old 01-08-2006, 12:03 AM
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The commonly available injectors for the 603 cannot create a "power increase".

It's simply a valve and a nozzle. When the valve gets to a specific pressure, it opens and a fine mist of fuel is sprayed into the prechamber.

If you want a power increase, you need to adjust the IP. This is not for the faint of heart and you'll melt some pistons if you are not cognizant of the exhaust temperature and maintain it within reason via modulation of your right foot.

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 01-09-2006 at 02:37 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2006, 05:22 PM
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By altering the hole pattern/size of the nozzle, more fuel can be injected in the same window, thus creating "more power". It's a pretty common upgrade for the VW TDIs.
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  #4  
Old 01-08-2006, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tolive31
By altering the hole pattern/size of the nozzle, more fuel can be injected in the same window, thus creating "more power". It's a pretty common upgrade for the VW TDIs.
I'm not aware that this has ever been done on 603 injectors.

Are you?
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  #5  
Old 01-08-2006, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
I'm not aware that this has ever been done on 603 injectors.

Are you?
I think that was the question in post #1 of this thread.
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2006, 08:47 PM
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I do not see the point of it, there's plenty left in the stock IP to melt down your mill... let alone a a modified pump.

I've only seen very high power turbo diesels getting modified injectors. They're honed internally too.
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  #7  
Old 01-08-2006, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimFreeh
I think that was the question in post #1 of this thread.
Yes, thanks for that observation............and we remain without an answer.
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  #8  
Old 01-08-2006, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
Yes, thanks for that observation............and we remain without an answer.
Happy to help Brian - because as we all know it's certainly possible to increase the power of a Diesel engine by increasing the fuel delivery via modified injectors that will flow more fuel per injection event.
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  #9  
Old 01-08-2006, 09:09 PM
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i was thinking today of modding injectors then i thought.. nah i dont need to grenade my engine this soon
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2006, 09:40 PM
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Extremely common upgrade on 12v Cummins 6BT in Dodge pickups. AFAIK, less fuel spills to the return line and more goes into the combustion chamber. Delivery valves on P7100 pumps are another common Dodge upgrade.

I can tell you that several 400hp+ 603s are running around europe with the original injectors and delivery valves. They replace the 5.5mm pump elements with 7mm, along with other pump mods, intercoolers, custom manifolds and big turbos (Holset HX40W is a favorite there).
I'm thinking of taking a similar course with my OM602. I won't do a whole lot to the pump, just put the 7mm plungers & barrels in and modify the governor to start defueling at 6000rpm. I'll probably use a Garrett GT23 VNT, which is bigger than the stock turbo and smaller than a Holset HX35, should be good for 250-275hp, with less turbo lag than a Holset or even a stock turbo. I'd rather have 250hp with predictable delivery than 330hp and major turbo lag, even if the 330hp car can beat me by a second in the 1/4 mile.

Warning:
I would not do anything to increase fueling beyond stock, or increase boost beyond 15psi, without a good exhaust gas temperature gauge. A MBZ turbo properly set to stock specs is already capable of some scary exhaust temp numbers. A turn or two on the full load stop screw could probably get you a cracked head or piston if you aren't careful. You will almost certainly need an intercooler to get a noticeable power increase without meltdown.
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Last edited by Mitch H; 01-08-2006 at 09:49 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-08-2006, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch H
Extremely common upgrade on 12v Cummins 6BT in Dodge pickups. AFAIK, less fuel spills to the return line and more goes into the combustion chamber. Delivery valves on P7100 pumps are another common Dodge upgrade.

I can tell you that several 400hp+ 603s are running around europe with the original injectors and delivery valves. (they replace the 5.5mm pump elements with 7mm and other pump mods, along with intercoolers, custom manifolds and big turbos (like Holset HX40W).
I'm thinking of taking a similar course with my OM602. I won't do a whole lot to the pump, just put the 7mm plungers & barrels in and modify the governor to start defueling at 6000rpm. I'll probably use a Garrett GT23 VNT, which is between the size of the stock turbo and a Holset HX35, should be good for 250-275hp, with less turbo lag than a Holset or even a stock turbo.

Warning:
I would not do anything to increase fueling beyond stock, or increase boost beyond 15psi, without a good exhaust gas temperature gauge. A MBZ turbo properly set to stock specs is already capable of some scary exhaust temp numbers. A turn or two on the full load stop screw could probably get you a cracked head or piston if you aren't careful. You will almost certainly need an intercooler to get a noticeable power increase without meltdown.



Are you going to modify the IP yourself?
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2006, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimFreeh
Happy to help Brian - because as we all know it's certainly possible to increase the power of a Diesel engine by increasing the fuel delivery via modified injectors that will flow more fuel per injection event.
Well, you may know it's possible to increase the power of a 603 by modifying the injectors, but, I haven't seen any evidence to prove it, either by you, or anyone else.

Until you do it, and are successful with spray pattern and delivery volume, it's sheer speculation to think it will work.

Let us all know when you've got it all sorted out.
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2006, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit Man X
Are you going to modify the IP yourself?
I'm waiting for Antti Arola at Mynš Diesel to get back from vacation and send me the 7mm elements. I'll probably have to take the pump to a shop with a test bench to get it rebalanced after I replace the elements. They can also make sure I get the governor set right. I'd like full power at 6000rpm, which is a little over 60mph in 2nd gear, but it would also be nice to have the power cut off sharply after that point, hopefully keeping no-load speed under 6500rpm.
If my car can match a 320CDI for 0-60 time I'll be happy. I don't need to kill Vettes at a drag strip, although it is fun to watch. Download the 40mb video linked below and see what Jorma's six cylinder W201 does about 7 1/2 minutes into the video:
http://students.tukkk.fi/tuukka.simonen/Mersuvideot/quarter_mile_Finland_May_2005.wmv
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2006, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
I'm not aware that this has ever been done on 603 injectors.

Are you?
I've not heard of it being done on the 603; it seems that, as others have noted, pump elements are a more common method of increasing fueling in this case.

It seems to me that interchangeable nozzles from another MB with fatter holes, if such an item exists, would be an easier (and probably cheaper) DIY, although I'd be hesitant to do anyting to increase fueling by much without adding an IC.
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2006, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch H
I'm waiting for Antti Arola at Mynš Diesel to get back from vacation and send me the 7mm elements. I'll probably have to take the pump to a shop with a test bench to get it rebalanced after I replace the elements. They can also make sure I get the governor set right. I'd like full power at 6000rpm, which is a little over 60mph in 2nd gear, but it would also be nice to have the power cut off sharply after that point, hopefully keeping no-load speed under 6500rpm.
If my car can match a 320CDI for 0-60 time I'll be happy. I don't need to kill Vettes at a drag strip, although it is fun to watch. Download the 40mb video linked below and see what Jorma's six cylinder W201 does about 7 1/2 minutes into the video:
http://students.tukkk.fi/tuukka.simonen/Mersuvideot/quarter_mile_Finland_May_2005.wmv


AH, so it will be done locally! My IP on the L needs to come out as it leaks, I was going to ship my extra one to Finland but if you can purchase the guts and have them done here, that's great. Please keep me informed on how you're going to go about doing this and where. If I do not have to ship my pump overseas that'd be nice.

Does the cam in the 602 pull to 6000rpm? The 603 is dead at 5000rpm.

I'm not looking for 400hp from my L, the power you're talking about is what I am looking for... and about 330-360tq.

I plan to modify my KKK turbocharger. Don't feel like building a custom manifold or new oil lines to feed it. Biggest KKK compressor I've seen is 60mm for the cold side, that's more than enough for what I'm after.

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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.
[/IMG]
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