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  #16  
Old 01-23-2006, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwnate1
Uh , no ~ _NOT_ ' totally false ' I replaced all 5 injectors in my NA '78 300CD ad it wouldn't start untill I cranked it with the injector lines cracked to bleed out the air
The way I read it, they are saying it "woulda started anyway" weather you cracked the nuts or not. I have also heard it doesnt do any good to crack them but I still do it , it just seems right (cant hurt) Maybe some more research needs to be done as Brian suggested.
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Last edited by Brian Carlton; 03-27-2006 at 07:38 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-23-2006, 06:53 PM
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Yes it should start providing there is fuel in the filters. The hand pump basically primes the fuel filters, the IP does the rest when cranking and running.
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  #18  
Old 01-24-2006, 08:29 AM
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That may be so but my car absotivly , posolutely would NOT start untill I bled the injectors ~ I spent 2 days trying to make it light up......

Came here and cried , you all said ' crack the injectors lines ' I did so and had my buddy crank it whilst I watched the air come out and it fired up as I was trying to tighten the # 3 injector.....
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  #19  
Old 01-24-2006, 11:13 PM
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personally

i wouldnt crack the lines in this case cause i wouldnt want diesel all over the place.

tom w
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2006, 08:48 PM
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So on an '84 300D, is really the only easy way to change the glow plugs to remove the injector lines? What is there to removing the injector lines besides unscrewing the bolts at the ends? No replaceable washers or anything like that?

I tried to replace my GP's this weekend (at least 1 is bad, so I figure I should just do 'em all) and I couldn't stand trying to turn each GP 1 degree at a time.

Any tricks/tips?

Thanks!
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  #21  
Old 03-01-2006, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsieurBon
What is there to removing the injector lines besides unscrewing the bolts at the ends?
Nothing.........but there are no "bolts". They are simply fitting nuts.

Remove the nuts at the injectors..........remove the nuts at the IP........start with #1 on the IP, then raise the nut up onto the tube to give you access to #2.........etc.

When you put it back together, some engines benefit by keeping the nuts on the injectors loose and cranking for 15 seconds to force fresh fuel into the hard lines.

Then, tighten the nuts at the injectors and start it up.

I'd never do any work on the valves or the glow plugs with the lines installed. Just too simple to remove them.
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  #22  
Old 03-01-2006, 11:05 PM
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Talking

Hands down the easiest way that i have resolved the issues is to take the air cleaner off and have some one spray wd-40 while you crank. you will soon here the engine spurt to life with even more power when the diesel gets through the lines. you may here some knocking when you do this. mercedes engines knock alot when you use the wrong grade of fuel. deafinetly beats cracking lines and spilling diesel everywhere pluse it makes the engine sound cooler. once you here diesel taking over STOP SPRAYING!!! an over load of fuel will deafinetly shoot you egt out the roof so be carefull and lets keep these classics alive!~Luke
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2006, 12:13 AM
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I agree, take the lines off as a "unit" (17mm open end wrench) and, I use a "gear" wrench for the GPs, and their wires, no pain, on strain
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  #24  
Old 03-02-2006, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
Sorry Russell. Totally false. (I've edited post #2 and post #4 to prevent false info for other members)

If you take the injector lines off, you can pump the primer pump 5000 times and no fuel will enter the injector lines. Furthermore, no air is introduced into the system, with the exception of the hard lines to the injectors.

So, the only thing that needs to be done is to get in the vehicle, glow it, press your right foot on the floor, and turn the key.

It will start in 12 seconds.

Also, you don't need to bother with cracking the injector lines. I've proven that it won't buy you anything. If you crack the lines, you get fuel at the injectors in 12 seconds. If you don't crack the lines, you start the engine in 12 seconds.

Another one of the stories that abound on this forum.......proven false.

If you crack open a delivery valve you CAN prime an air locked IP with the primer pump and purge the air in it. Trust me as I have done it. If you are not on level ground you almost have to do this as often as not. In the repeated IP removals when I was tweaking up my IP in my W116 I had to do this several times when it wouldn't self purge before runing down the battery. However with all the delivery valves in place you will not purge all the air from the IP with the primer pump....only some of it...you do move fuel through the IP when priming. However the air pocket you can have is above the path of fuel in the OM617.95X IP.


You are correct in that cracking an injector line will make no difference. And thats due to the delivery valves. If the element is below the fuel level it will clear itself...if its not then it won't deliver enough pressure to pop the delivery valve and purge.


I've been inside an IP enough times and have done this procedure over 10 times with as many as 15 times. It has air locked on me 6 of those times as my driveway is not level. You do have to be extra carefull to not overtorque the delivery valve or you will crack its sealing surface. Trust me as I did that and had to aquire a replacement from a fellow forum member to replace it.

On level ground you will rarely have to do this.
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Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 03-02-2006 at 09:12 AM.
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  #25  
Old 03-02-2006, 09:18 AM
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'81 300SD is totally gutless until it warms up

My '81 300SD is totally gutless until it warms up to operating temperature. It is so bad that, if I try to drive it before it warms up, I could have an accident because I can't get out of the way of traffic until the engine is warm. Some of you are going to tell me to wait until it warms up and I do most of the time but there are those times I'm in a bit of a hurry. I don't think it's normal. There must be something I can do, like adjust the ALDA or something. If any of you has any good advice, please let me know. Thanks.
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  #26  
Old 03-02-2006, 09:31 AM
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'sorry my last thread got posted to the wrong place

As you can see my last thread got posted to the wrong place. 'sorry about that.
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  #27  
Old 03-02-2006, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

You are correct in that cracking an injector line will make no difference. And thats due to the delivery valves. If the element is below the fuel level it will clear itself...if its not then it won't deliver enough pressure to pop the delivery valve and purge.

Actually, subsequent to my last post, a couple of members proved this false on their own vehicles. They could not get the engine to get fuel by simply cranking it. Cracking the injector lines allows the IP to provide fuel to the lines and purge the air.

The success of the procedure has nothing to do with the level of the element or the fuel. The pressure provided by the IP is about 100X greater than the static pressure of the fuel, therefore, the level is irrelevant. The capability of the IP to force air.........meaning the internal sealing of the elements..........would be the driving factor on whether it will purge the air without cracking the lines. Some folks have to crack the lines to get fuel to the injectors........some don't.
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  #28  
Old 03-02-2006, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
Actually, subsequent to my last post, a couple of members proved this false on their own vehicles. They could not get the engine to get fuel by simply cranking it. Cracking the injector lines allows the IP to provide fuel to the lines and purge the air.

The success of the procedure has nothing to do with the level of the element or the fuel. The pressure provided by the IP is about 100X greater than the static pressure of the fuel, therefore, the level is irrelevant. The capability of the IP to force air.........meaning the internal sealing of the elements..........would be the driving factor on whether it will purge the air without cracking the lines. Some folks have to crack the lines to get fuel to the injectors........some don't.
if its on a hill the fuel will remain level while the pump isn't...that can have the two higher end elements above the fuel level and therefore won't purge. Again as I said....this was on a hill. On level ground I would agree with your statement. I've ran my battery dead three times trying to purge the air on mine without getting it to hit on more than 2 cylinders which is not enough to keep it runing. When I pulled the highest delivery valve I was able to prime the systel to a level that all of the elements would see fuel. Once I figured that out I never had further problems.

It all depends on how level your workplace is. On level ground I would agree with you the IP would normally self purge itself of the air pocket. Its only on a hill that you would have sufficient air pocket at one end to really have this issue. (not a parking issue its just repriming an IP that was installed on a car sitting on a hill) And why I would recomend doing any work that involves IP replacement or the fuel lines to the IP be done on somewhat level ground.
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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  #29  
Old 03-02-2006, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

It all depends on how level your workplace is. On level ground I would agree with you the IP would normally self purge itself of the air pocket. Its only on a hill that you would have sufficient air pocket at one end to really have this issue. (not a parking issue its just repriming an IP that was installed on a car sitting on a hill) And why I would recomend doing any work that involves IP replacement or the fuel lines to the IP be done on somewhat level ground.
We are speaking of two different scenarios. In most cases, when folks remove the hard lines, there is no introduction of air into the IP. So, you would think that the IP would easily purge the hard lines of air via the injectors.

But, several members could not get the engine running unless the hard lines were bled. IMHO, this must be a variable due to the pump and not the level of the vehicle.
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  #30  
Old 03-02-2006, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
We are speaking of two different scenarios. In most cases, when folks remove the hard lines, there is no introduction of air into the IP. So, you would think that the IP would easily purge the hard lines of air via the injectors.

But, several members could not get the engine running unless the hard lines were bled. IMHO, this must be a variable due to the pump and not the level of the vehicle.

True......what I was stating is a caveat (due to working on a hillside). So I don't disagree with your statements in a general sense. I have never had problems purging the air from the hard lines lines...however I do need to state this for clarity.... I do typically loosen the lines at the injector to purge the lines when I pull the IP off. Purely to reduce the cranking time to get the system running. However when I take the hard lines off when timing the IP once it fires ( I want to see it start before I take the time to fine adjust the timing) after the install I typically do not purge those lines a second time (after adjusting the timing) and never had issues personally.


Just removing the hardlines should not be an issue that introduces air into the IP.......UNLESS they have leaking delivery valve seals and this will allow air to enter and fuel to drain off back towards the tank via siphon action. Cracking the lines in this case allows the system to purge air with little resistance. This may explain what some people see.
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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 03-02-2006 at 12:04 PM.
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