Went skiing this weekend in the Fraser valley and drove the 85 300td which doesn'thave a block heater. SInce the weather has been moderate in Denver I foolishly didn't check the predicted temperatures before we left. Sat morning it was 25 below. Since we weren't travelling I didn't try to start it until 2pm. After cranking for about 2 minutes and firing on one cylinder for a while, it ran. I then started it every 4 hrs or so until midnight when I contemplated letting it run all night but decided to shut if off since it had been starting fine even at midnight when it was about 20 below. When I tried to start it at 8 am it was 35 below. It started after about 30 seconds of cranking but I couldn't get it to run above about 700rpms. It stalled, I started it again, stalled again and then it wouldn't start again.

I ended up getting it towed to a shop where after an hour inside with a salamander blowing on it and a charger on the battery, it started.
A brief conversation with the mechanic yielded the source of the problem. The fuel sold in Denver in the winter gels at the temperatures experienced in the mountain valleys. In the mountain valleys they sell a blend of 60/40 #2/#1. When I was with the mechanic, he got three calls from other dieselers with the same problem.
The moral of the story: First off, 617's will start at 35 below without the aid of a block heater. But unlike me, you should try to anticipate the temperatures where you are travelling and make sure you have a good enough winter fuel to deal with them, or add enough anti-gelling additives to resolve the problem.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Any questions on the condition of your engine?

__________________
Adam Lumsden
(83) 300D
Vice-President of the MBCA International Stars Section

I never take for granted that the fuel has already been winterized, as I always give a little taste of Power Service at every fillup, even in the warm months because it makes the car run better. So it follows that the car starts without a hiccup no matter how cold it gets.

__________________
'02 BMW 325i
'85 300D 450k
'93 190E 2.6 170k(killed by tree)
'08 Ducati Hypermotard 1100S 6k
'06 Ducati S2R800 14k(sold)

It was only 7 or 8F out this morning and mine fired off in 6 cranks with a 15 second glow. I had not anticipated it to be that cold, and had not plugged it in.... It actually "fired" on the first crank, but I let it turn over 4-5 times without pressing the pedal to build up significant heat, and when I hear it wanting to start, I give more fuel, and it roars to life.

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

At 35 below I wouldn't even be able to walk out to the car, much less see if it started.....

__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

Looks like I won't be going into the mountains with my tankfull of #2.

Were you aware that Denver's winter fuel was inadequate for really low termperatures? If so, how did you know? Why was I so ignorant? The mechanic told me they sell an 80/20 blend in Idaho Springs but that that is inadequate for serious cold.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Last year we had one seriously cold day in Denver, and a collegue of mine gelled his diesel truck running pump diesel. I was running B30 with tons of anti-gel and started/ran ok.

__________________
'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88
'01 VW Beetle TDI
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD
'89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T
'78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110
Oil Burner Kartel #35

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg

Two items of note:

I've seen pics from Russia where drivers built fires under their fuel tanks on the ground to warm the diesel up so that they can drive. I wouldn't try that method of fuel warming though.

You could use a magnetic block warmer on the tank to warm the fuel up. I have one that I plan to semi-permanently install on the front of the 300TDs tank and I'll wire it to the block heater. Then when the timer kicks on in the morning it will power the block heater and the tank warmer.

-Tad

__________________
1995 G320
2003 C230 Kompressor Coupe
2005 ML500
2007 ML350

That's a very good idea!

I don't know what fuel blend Denver or Idaho Springs use but the #2 I got at SappBros had no problems in the snow storm friday night. It's been such a heat wave over the last few weeks (the thermometer at work read 78*f on thursday afternoon!) that I decided to risk the gel factor and run the better fuel. SappBros won't start selling B20 again until spring and I don't really like the B20 blend that Shoco Oil uses.

I like the idea of the tank warmer too.
If I had been unable to get the TD towed and put inside, I was going to get a friend to drive me to the store where I planned to purchase some fastlight charcoal and tin foil baking sheets so I could slide the charcoal under the engine compartment to warm it up. I wouldn't have known to heat the fuel tank also, but heating the fuel in the filters and lines in the engine compartment might have been enough to get is started and stay idling until the recirculating fuel got warmed up.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I've never had my car in -35F, but last year I was in Green Bay with the car outside at a hotel with -10F overnight. I used the local pump diesel and added a bunch of anti-gel additive from a truck stop, no problem with gelling.