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  #1  
Old 02-17-2006, 11:38 AM
intelligent
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Diesel Passat?

I heard that the new 2006 restyled Passat will introduce the diesel in mid year? Is that true? How are the Passat diesels? The new passat looks sweet. Does VW make good diesels? What's their reputation? I am in the market for a new car but can't seem to make up my mind! Thanks


Last edited by intelligent; 02-17-2006 at 04:27 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-17-2006, 12:19 PM
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vw diesels are fine if you like delicate cars with fairly robust, fwd drivelines that have a few things that i just cant have...

1) fwd- the wheels always feel like theyre all going different directions in fwd to me

2) quality issues- vw has severly cheapened the look of its cars this last redesign. they look like the cobalt, but with one...2...3... 5 pieces of trim instead of none? the last gen cars had big issues with MAF sensors, window regulators and cheap trim just falling off; large chunks of cheap trim-- whole air dams, side sills, foglight units... i wont have a car that sheds chunks of itself at 3 years.

3) mechanical issues: very expensive injection system; more expensive than a small 4 cyl domestic gasser at 5 years-- about when im guessing youll need to replace the IP.

3a) more mechanical issues: timing belts. every 60k, at a cost of a grand or so(anyone with real knowledge? i am just relaying things ive heard)

4) expense: a diesel passat is in the same price class as a gas(v6, even) c class, why would you even consider the vw? a gasser jetta is only $3k below the base c, it says alot about vws marketing, but i couldnt see the same audience buying both products.

lastly: its FWD! real cars are not pulled around like oxkarts-- theyre pushed around like baby brothers
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  #3  
Old 02-17-2006, 12:36 PM
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A Passat is a slightly larger Jetta, probably the same motor would be offered though.

The current VW diesel is a 1.9l "TDI" - similar technology to the E320CDI, but smaller and 2 less cylidners. In exhange for a "very expensive injection system" you get 45-50 real world mpg (surf tdiclub.com's forums...) 110hp and 150ft-lb's - not a lot but not 67hp/100ftlbf's (my 240D) either.
Please, find me a car, available in the US that can compete with these numbers (hybrids with 150ftlbf's ? sorry...).

Rumor has it that VW offers bigger TDI motors in europe, none are offered here (kinda like an S400CDI...) So maybe they are planning on bringing one over here soon...

-John
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  #4  
Old 02-17-2006, 12:48 PM
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http://www.tdiclub.com is where you want to go. They are the experts on this topic. The TDI is not the same as CDI. While they're both direct-injected, even the latest TDI is not common-rail which is a more advanced technology.

I actually thought about buying a Jetta TDI as well and I recently test drove one. It has nice pickup compared to my NA OM606, but naturally it feels kind of cheap compared to the W210. I also felt the gears were too close together (this was the 5-speed) and the shifts were too short, but that's probably because I'm used to the 240D's old-school shifts.
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Last edited by DieselAddict; 02-17-2006 at 03:08 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-17-2006, 01:14 PM
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No new diesel VWs 'til 2007, perhaps not until 2008. The technology will be new as the current PD design is at the end of its emissions design lifetime.

Two new models have been tentatively approved for NAmerica.
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  #6  
Old 02-17-2006, 01:19 PM
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I like turbo-diesels, have for a lot of years and miles. I had looked for a used Tdi, then at new. We had one FWD and neither my wife or I will ever have another (Jetta II, bought new). They are a PITA on anything other than a slow takeoff on dry pavement, up here we seldom see dry pavement and when we do there are lots of intersections with gravel or something on them, I got tired of spinning tires and going straight when trying to turn, really suck in snow. All of the cheapest cars in the world are FWD, that is how they make them cheap, all of the top cars in the world are RWD or AWD, it costs more but IMO is worth it.

Our Jetta was also in service constantly, 13times in the first year for the same problem, driveability issues, ring-gear failure at 60,000miles, lots of other problems and VW didn't stand behind it at all. We do have 2 Volkswagen products currently, one of them is likely going to get a new Tdi transplant (a Vanagon Syncro). They're long-ago paid for and the bugs worked out, different story.

Buying a new TDI just doesn't seem financially reasonable, the premium for the TDI new or used doesn't get amortized into savings over the ownership period. A friend of mine who deals exclusively in used VW products at his lot doesn't even bother to buy them at the VW auction. The maintenance is higher than it should be I've been told, and riding around in a little box that rides like a Yugo for that much money just doesn't cut it. The buyers aren't there for what they have to ask.

I was somewhat pissed when I dropped my 4matic wagon off for warranty service a while back, they gave me a Jetta loaner to drive for the week. What crappy ride quality and switches and door panels, ... I'd buy a used Mercedes for the same money and be happier (and lower in the depreciation curve). Granted the fuel mileage isn't there in a diesel Benz, but put pen to paper and decide how much money/year that really is with $2.59/gallon diesel and it's surprisingly little to offset the depreciation and maintenance of the TDI new. I love TD powered cars etc., but couldn't justify it. Besides, it's that FWD crap, ... if they offered a TDI syncro or quattro in the US it would possibly be different. If you absolutely must have a new diesel car, and can't afford a new Mercedes diesel, I guess you're stuck.

My Audi ironically was the opposite experience, same parent company but different service/warranty staff, what things needed attention got it with vigor. I still have a quattro, friends of mine tell me that VW and Audi both have been suffering with quality issues in the past few years though.

... but I digress.

- Jeff Miller
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  #7  
Old 02-17-2006, 01:20 PM
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passat or jetta

passat is still made in germany ,jetta and bug in Mexico.;;Food for thought.
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  #8  
Old 02-17-2006, 01:44 PM
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The passat we have is great! still the older B5 body style but is roomy. According to tdiclub no plans on future tdi's yet so far only TDI up for sale is the jetta. Yes the passat is made in germany and the jetta is made in mexico but i dont think that should make a huge difference in the engines just the build quality on materials but i compared the new jetta to the passat we have now and it was still great quality but went for the passat only because my mom doesnt like stick shift. The new jetta is the same size as the older B5 passat so if your interested in it i say go for it! they are great cars but if you dont follow the oil specs and what not they wont last as long.

As a plus the passat has been getting 50mpg on D2 and around 38-45mpg on biodiesel. But doesnt loose power when on full B100! which is what i really like about it. Oh and if you dont use the 505.01 oil you may get early wear on your cam which sucks because the elf 505.01 oil is expensive, and the dealer always sells the wrong oil

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1232068#post1232068
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  #9  
Old 02-17-2006, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel
A Passat is a slightly larger Jetta, probably the same motor would be offered though.

The current VW diesel is a 1.9l "TDI" - similar technology to the E320CDI, but smaller and 2 less cylidners. In exhange for a "very expensive injection system" you get 45-50 real world mpg (surf tdiclub.com's forums...) 110hp and 150ft-lb's - not a lot but not 67hp/100ftlbf's (my 240D) either.
Please, find me a car, available in the US that can compete with these numbers (hybrids with 150ftlbf's ? sorry...).

Rumor has it that VW offers bigger TDI motors in europe, none are offered here (kinda like an S400CDI...) So maybe they are planning on bringing one over here soon...

-John
In the passat they offered the 2.0T which was much faster and stonger then the 1.9T. Our passat was faster then the gasser 1.8T we had before it and i think that speaks for itself.
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1987 300D
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1983 300SD
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  #10  
Old 02-17-2006, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uberwgn
No new diesel VWs 'til 2007, perhaps not until 2008. The technology will be new as the current PD design is at the end of its emissions design lifetime.

Two new models have been tentatively approved for NAmerica.
I'm more excited about the Honda diesels. If we get Civic diesels with a manual transmission I may just have to get one, even though it's a FWD. I just hope Honda engineers can make a durable diesel. They seem kind of new to it, although Honda does sell diesel cars outside of the US, mainly in Europe.
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  #11  
Old 02-17-2006, 04:03 PM
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In 2004 the B5.5 was introduced with the 2.0-liter pumpe düse injection TDI (no IP)
No torque steer, great in the snow, combined mpg in the high 30's. Pleaseure to drive, fast, great handling. Craftsmanship seems to be good, nice sold thud when closing the doors(25,000+ mi) Drive by wire, computer controlled everything. Hoping and praying I never have to use a major warranty claim
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Last edited by pmari; 02-17-2006 at 04:22 PM.
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict
I'm more excited about the Honda diesels. If we get Civic diesels with a manual transmission I may just have to get one, even though it's a FWD. I just hope Honda engineers can make a durable diesel. They seem kind of new to it, although Honda does sell diesel cars outside of the US, mainly in Europe.
Ive checked on many UK car reveiw sites no real major complaints but most of them said the vibration is annoying and doesnt get the mpg they claim but is still good. You can look it up yourself just google in "honda ictdi review" and youll get a list of sites and people reviewing the car.
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Previous
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1983 300SD
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  #13  
Old 02-17-2006, 04:53 PM
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I had an "indy" do the timing belt on my TDI. Seems like it was $300 plus the belt. New style belt to go 80,000 miles. I did mine at 60,000 and it looked new. Dealer was five or six hundred.

I loved it, few issues as noted on MAF, and cheap trim items. But I got 48.5 on it like clockwork. I had it "chipped" and it was impossible to drive in the snow with 200+ ft/lbs torque (with the "chip" in stock mode is was tolerable). Stock is like 155. Absolutely amazing to take it through the mountains with all that torque

Oh, EGR clogging issues also fairly common.

TDIClub is the only place to go for info.
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2006, 10:43 PM
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I've never seen diesels fr0m Japan last anywhere cl0se t0 what the German made 0nes last. Any Japanese diesels I've seen f0r sale with 0ver 200K miles 0r s0 have had a rebuild.
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2006, 10:54 PM
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I'd wait until Toyota comes with diesels for the NA market, I would hope they are made by Hino, since those seem to last as long as most MB engines...

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