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  #1  
Old 02-25-2008, 06:09 PM
muleears's Avatar
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How do I stop this from hapenning again? W210 Broken plug syndrome

What is the conventional wisdom? Should I coat them with anti-seize everywhere except the tip? What kind of anti-seize? Should I remove them every 6 months, ream the holes, re-anti-seize and reinstall? I don't want to go through this again in 50K miles when these plugs go out. I would gladly yank the IM and pull the plugs every 6 mo. if it would solve the problem. Any thoughts anyone?

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'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2008, 06:28 PM
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Anti-sieze is about the only thing you can do although one does need to be careful that the plug is not over-torqued as it will act as a lubricant on the threads.

FYI - My current set of plugs has been in there for 125k miles. Just tested them recently and resistance looked good on all of them. I used Beru's as that what it came with from the factory. I've never tested them to see if they are stuck since I put them in nor did I anti-seize them. I might anti-sieze them next time they come out. I can't personally see testing to see if they are stuck as long as they are working.....is increasing the risk factor and asking for trouble with nothing to be gained IMO.
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2008, 06:45 PM
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Procastination is not the answer. It is theretically cheaper to pull them every six months and recoat them. Your type af driving milage accumulation etc might make a difference in the frequency a little. If they come out extremely easy at the six month point you might extend it a little for example.
One thing for sure it is far cheaper even perhaps if you have to pay an individual to do it over the long haul. The peace of mind is not insignifigant either. We all know some in not all glow plugs will fail eventually. I agree if already installed for a long period to wait and see.
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  #4  
Old 02-25-2008, 07:03 PM
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Of the six in my car, one is new, one is broken and the other four are complete unknowns. Sunday I tried to take #1 out to replace and it appears stuck also. It moved a small amount (about 2mm) and stopped. I re-tightened and tried again, this time it wouldn't move. This was a cold engine though.

What about impact tools, any luck with those?
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #5  
Old 02-25-2008, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
Of the six in my car, one is new, one is broken and the other four are complete unknowns. Sunday I tried to take #1 out to replace and it appears stuck also. It moved a small amount (about 2mm) and stopped. I re-tightened and tried again, this time it wouldn't move. This was a cold engine though.

What about impact tools, any luck with those?
We had plenty of discussions on how to remove them without breaking them off.

It seems that an impact gun...........calibrated to not more than 60 lb.-ft............and allowed to pound away on the glow plug..........in both directions...........will eventually free any packed carbon if you've got the patience. Maybe it will take 30 minutes..............but, eventually, the vibrations must loosen the plug. Furthermore, it's not possible to fracture the plug if you've properly set the impact wrench.

Try it out on #1. Naturally, you'll have to use a proper torque wrench to calibrate the the impact wrench.

The other possibility is one of the 60 lb-ft. torque sticks.
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  #6  
Old 02-25-2008, 07:17 PM
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Thanks Brian, sounds like a project for this weekend. What about the PM aspect? Remove every so often or let em sit till they're dead?
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2008, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
Thanks Brian, sounds like a project for this weekend. What about the PM aspect? Remove every so often or let em sit till they're dead?
I think that the recommendation to remove them every year is due to the concern about finally getting them out. If we could document a final solution for removing them under any condition, the PM would not be required.

Due to the nature of an impact wrench and the brittle nature of the carbon deposits, I'm quite optimistic about this approach if one has sufficient patience to just hold their finger on the trigger for 1/2 hour. Also, don't just hammer in the counter-clockwise direction. If the plug develops some "slack", you'll accomplish the goal much faster if you reverse the wrench..........run it clockwise for a second..........and then return to counter-clockwise. The plug gets a "running start" and hammers into the packed carbon thereby further loosening it.

See how you make out with the impact wrench. Make sure you do not exceed 60 lb-ft. Err on the side of 55 lb.-ft.

Some have touted the use of PB to loosen the carbon. Might be worth a try.
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2008, 07:37 PM
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I hate to say anything, fearing it is likely to curse me. But, after reading about this problem, I go out of my way to give my car an "Italian Tuneup" daily for a week or more before I attempt to take mine out. I have always done it on a cold engine and so far, have replaced all of them in three separate "sessions" without breaking any off. I have applied anti-seize compound for brake components (high temperature rating) each time.

For how much they cost to replace at the dealership, there is no excuse for their short lifetime, or their tendency to break off. This is clearly the result of bad engineering - they are under the intake manifold so changing them is a PIA, or very costly if you have a dealer do it. The fact that they can break off outside the threaded area because they get stuck is just a design flaw. If they broke off inside the threaded area, the removal would be one hell of a lot easier.

I have noticed new cars have lots of relatively meaningless plastic shrouding and the like to cover the engine and make it look cool. That money and effort would be better spent making them maintainable. Most people who actually do something under the hood don't appreciate removing useless parts to gain access to items needing attention or maintenance.

Jim
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1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
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1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
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Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2008, 08:21 PM
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I love those things!! Bought a 475# one for the lug-nuts on my coach, sooo much easier than torquing by hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
The other possibility is one of the 60 lb-ft. torque sticks.
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2008, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post
I love those things!! Bought a 475# one for the lug-nuts on my coach, sooo much easier than torquing by hand.
Have you ever checked them for accuracy? I never owned one.........so, I have no experience.
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2008, 08:51 PM
muleears's Avatar
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Pardon my ignorance.... what is a torque stick?
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
Pardon my ignorance.... what is a torque stick?




See the thin section in the middle? It twists at a specified torque setting and doesn't transmit more than the calibrated amount of torque. The thicker the stick........the higher the torque transmittal. Each color represents a specified torque.
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2008, 09:58 AM
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I R&R them once a year. This last time it was over a year so it was a little sticky. Finally got it out without breaking. Also used quite a bit of penetrating oil. For the sticky ones, half turn out, squirt, half turn back in, wait a bit, turn it out half turn and then turn it out another half turn and repeat.

All plugs are coated with anti-seize from the top of the threads to the bottom where it seats. Obviously not the tips.

To ream it out, I prefer a gun bore brush. Get a cheap cleaning kit from Wal*Mart because for #6 you are going to have to bend the rod. I got 2 cheap brushes. One for the smaller part since it is going into the hole where the tip goes and one for the larger part. Here is the trick, with the reamer, because it is a still piece of metal, you cannot be larger than the small bore. With a wire brush that is used in the guns, you can get it larger and it will neck down.
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
Thanks Brian, sounds like a project for this weekend. What about the PM aspect? Remove every so often or let em sit till they're dead?
IMO a PM of every year is sufficient.
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2008, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Have you ever checked them for accuracy? I never owned one.........so, I have no experience.
Here is my opinion. I'd forget about them. I had a tech swear by them and he did my lug nuts. Right in front of him, I used a torque wrench and checked them. All of them were different. Not very consistent. So, if I were to use a torque stick for this, I'd get a lower setting than what is recommended. I don't want to snap it off.

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99 E300 Turbodiesel
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11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
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