I hope I titled this correctly.
We own two 5 cylinder 617 engine cars, one turbo, one non-turbo.

We are going to purchase one more turbo diesel.
I am starting to think that I should stay away from the 6 cylnder diesel in the
1987 or so 300SDL. Mostly because of the engine (this is the 603 right ?).

I have no experience with this engine and do not have anyone to get feedback from.
Except you all.

I know this may be sensitive subject, but I have to ask.

__________________
80 300D 340K Owned 30 yrs
83 300SD 440K Owned 9 yrs - Daily Driver 150mi/day
02 Z71 Suburban 117,000
15 Toyota Prius 2600 miles
00 Harley Sportster 24k
09 Yamaha R6
03 Ninja 250

I have a 300D and my mom used to have a 300SDL. Both engines are great... the 603 sounds pretty nice when revved up, much more refined than the coarse 617. The 300SDL is a lot more relaxed on the highway and has much more passing power. YOu can really feel the extra power of the 603 when rolling along at say 15 mph and then punching the accelerator, your head will promptly be snapped back.

__________________
1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

I have found my 603 really easy to work on. I am not afraid of tearing anything apart and have come to this thought in seeing things on this board.

We are always afraid of things we do not know. The 603 is a more meticulous motor but once you get used to it there will be no difference from the 617. I have learned alot from the mercedes techs that have done work on my car and most of them prefer the the 603 to drive due to the extra power. The really stickey point on this motor is the cracked head. If it is not the #14 Head you are golden. I have the wonderful #14 head and as of 167,200ish miles have not had a problem. From the info on this board I will not see a prob 'till around 200k. I am still new to the 603 motor so please view this as an opinion.

__________________
Owen

87 300TD 603 I-6
94 Jeep XJ I-6 4.0 (see the pattern)
89 750il
seventy-two hundred feet above sea level (kinda cold up here)

I'm in love with MB's 5-bangers. If I had to get an OM60x powered vehicle as my next car (If you could pry my 240D 3.0T from my cold dead hands, that is!) I'd have to go with the 1987 190D 2.5T. The second fastest production diesel car in the world until the 90's, only the '86/87 300D was faster.

Hello fellows,

My 603 is almost 16 years old and 4O8,OOO km. The head seal was blown on 270,000km. It consumes no oil, is far more powerfull and economic than the 617. I am still delighted owning and driving my 1990 W124 TDT!

Danny

has proven a bit fiddly to get things right. when right it is awesome to drive... smooth quiet and powerful with good economy.

but the 617 is in an entirely different world when it comes to reliability. once you do it up right you just about forget about it for a good long time. not fiddly at all. just bulletproof reliability. good power too.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

There really is no good reason to stay away from the 603 unless you are concerned about a cracked head. There is a greater percentage of 603 heads that crack when compared to the 617. The combination of an aluminum casting and an overheat can cause the 603 to crack, and, such cracks will probably not cause symptoms for many thousands of miles after the event.

The cost of fix a cracked head on a 603 is substantial. But, the engine is much smoother and has significantly more power than the 617. You can run it all day long at 3500 rpm and it sounds like a sewing machine, unlike the 617.

You have to decide on your tolerance for risk. If you have limited resources and a $3K head would bankrupt you, then I'd avoid the 603..........you'll lose your entire investment in the vehicle if the head cracks.

But, remember that about 30% of them crack over time (recent survey on M-Shop) so the odds are in your favor.

only reason i turned a 603 car down was because of the .... headlights.. stupid stupid.. but i like my 617 i can beat a mustang off the line.. thank you triple K

That's hardly a good reason. Euros fix that issue PDQ.

617 is more 'diesel'
603 is more refined but still clearly a diesel
neither will win any speed contest...slow and slower
Some say 617 is simpler but the 603 has self adjusting valves.

__________________
82 300D....went to MB heaven
90 350 SDL....excercising con rods

wow, the fastest production diesel was a 1986/87 300d?

i passed on one for 2 grand with 250k...

well, and because the lady on the telephone said "we have 10 kids-- we're always doing something, you might catch us, our address is..... what youall want to do to get here is to go over isbel mountain, turn left, right, left, right, right again and go 10 miles. youll then see our *compound* on the right, its the one with the 10 foot tall privacy fence, no tresspassing signs and gate."

i am not buying a car from marshall applewhites cousin.

really, the mileage scared me off. im not out to set any distances traveled records in my car and whenever she said "one of the power door locks doesnt work and that means the car doesnt shut down; the paint is peeling, the dash is cracked and we dont know anything about it... my husband inherited it from his father 3 years ago and never liked it"

is that a 603 car?

and to answer the question originally asked.... i like my 616 best...


sometimes.

__________________
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...Untitled-1.jpg

$3k, Brian? I'm currently installing a #22 head on my sled, and I'm into it for about 2/3 that amount. But, I bought all new valves, which wasn't entirely necessary. I assume you're including someone else's labor into that figure. I guess my philosophy assumes that if you don't do your own work, you really don't have much rational business purchasing a 19+ year old vehicle and expecting much in the first place...or maybe it's just some sort of genetic defect that leads us like lemmings to torture ourselves again and again. My SnapOn torque wrench decided to let go last night, and I smashed my pinky nail--will probably lose it.

Add up every last detail..........all the parts........head bolts.......gasket kit........valves.........etc.

How much did you pay for the head, itself? A new casting would be $1800. or so and that would get you to $3K pretty quick. Of course, if you can find a good used #22 for $1K or so, then you have a shot at $2K, but, in reality, it's effectively impossible.

I wasn't using any labor in my figures with the exception of the machine shop labor to setup the head and/or do a valve job on an existing head.

I paid $1650 for the head, and re-used the head bolts, prechambers*, springs, etc. Since I purchased new valves, I was able to hand-lap, which saved machine shop time, though I do have free access to those services. I also did a mild port/polish/match-port job while I was in there. I think all told, I'm into it for just shy of $2k, which is still a lot of money.


*I'm gambling with the prechambers, since I didn't have them machined. Rather, I hand-ground the required bevel modification at the base, so it remains to be seen whether I'll get away with not purchasing new PC's. That would up the total price substantially.

Add the cost of the prechambers, the cost for a machine shop to lap the valves to the seats, the cost to install new guides and hone them, the new valve seals, new head bolts (probably a safe bet), and you are pushing $3K.

Metric was strongly opposed to using the existing prechambers as the shafts for the balls were loose in the sidewalls. After 180K, it's typical.

There are all kinds of ways to cut corners............the figure of $3K includes everything but the labor to R & R.