So you have $12k into a twenty year old car, eh... it happens. PM, major repair, etc. Just think, insurance is $25 a month for the liability on the old stuff (for me at least) versus $160/mo for the Z71 alone. SOON it will be paid off and no more payments of ~$540/mo either. Allllllll principal now.

I'd much rather put $2-3K in major repairs every four years than have the payments monthy... massive insurance... hardcore depreciation, etc. These MBs have pretty much bottomed out from what I gather.

__________________
I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

...and mine was that to put nearly $12K into this car and think it was a steal is crazy. Regardless of what it cost new, it is 19 years old. That's 19 years on every component. While I realize the car still probably has tons of good miles left in it those will not be trouble free miles (if they were this board wouldn't be full of messages). The car is worth $4-6K for a reason...it is old and expensive to repair and not that many people want them. You want to put an average of a couple of hundred dollars a month into a 19 year old car then I suppose that's your prerogative but don't think it's a steal. It's more of a hobby.

I suppose it all depends on the buyer's intentions. If he's in this for the long haul then fix it up and keep it, but if he thinks he's going to sell the car in the next 2 years he will be better off just selling it now because he'll never recoup any of the repair costs.

And then there is insurance...ask anyone on this board who has tried to collect on one of these "classics" how much the insurance companies will pay after an accident. $12K? How about $4k? You'll never see anywhere near $12K from an insurance company for a '87 Benz...so you drive at your own risk too.

__________________
Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz

Insurance costs??? Is your insurance company going to pay you over $30,000.00 for your four year old pickup that gets totalled from a side impact from a Honda? No. Insurance is for suckers and we all have to be suckers to a point (can't get around it), but all of us don't have to get excessively carried away with being one. EVERYTHING has risks. To me, the best insurance is driving a car that is "structurally sound" to protect me should an accident occur, but I'm driving defensively and trying to look out for the other guy and hope I can avoid all of those people on the highway driving and feeling good about their insurance and don't mind risking taking chances on destroying your property and believing in those 90 day J.D. Powers reports in the consumer magazines. Sometimes, I believe the smarter we get, the dumber we are. But then again, that is what is great about capitalism. As you have demonstrated (to me) there is plenty of fodder to go around.

Plus, why buy a Mercedes, any Mercedes if you don't intend to keep it for at least 50,000 miles and 50,000 miles is all the warranty that Mercedes Benz give you for their $130,000.00 new cars?

Benzdiesel

I agree on the point of keeping it for at least 50K miles after the work is done on his car. I figure we will have close to $8K in our 300SD when the work is done including new paint. As for the insurance companies for example my 1987 Mustang has a book value of 2700, I have reciepts for the work done of over 8K. Many of the folks I know have their high performance Mustangss appraised and well documented for their exceptional condition, and the cost of the add on parts. Yes I will pay more a year for insurance for my Mustang than if it was only insured for $2,700. I learned this the hard way when my last 1983 Mustang GT was rear ended by a 81 y/o car killer still driving. I was able to get a few thousand more than the book value with LOTS of fighting. This time when my car rolls out of the body shop I am taking the folder of recepts and having a professional appraisal done. This way I will get back most all of the money if it gets stolen, or I get T-boned.

I look at it this way with the 1983 300SD we just bought. It is a rust free car. It will be repainted in the spring and I will have the underneath frame rails, jack points, and under the side mouldings painted with a good rust inhibitor paint. Then I can remove the bumpers, tail lights, and my body man can help me with the chrome and other parts I am unable to remove for a fair price. Then I will have the car painted with a rust inhibitor paint in the original color from MB the rust inhibitor paint company can match. I happen to like the MB W126 body style. I will document the car and pay for a professional insurance appraisal once it is finished this spring. Yes I will pay more for my annual car insurance. To me that is cheap insurance. I plan to keep this car for at least 5 or more years. Not having $500 or more in monthly car payments is a good thing. Like someone else said it I pay a 2K bills for A/c work when needed that is fine with me. After a few years of driving it I will still be way ahead on the money saved from not paying out monthly car payments. The car drives nicely. Havng a rust free car is not a bad thing for now. I am able to do the small stuff like cruise repairs when needed, tach repairs, oil changes, power steering fluid and filter changes, rear end fluid change to Amsoil, alternator and starter replacement, and more like the cruise control that works fine on my car. I still need to learn how to do the valve adjustment in another 13K miles. I still smile at how open the engine bay is on my car. It rides well on the highway and it will ride even better when I replace the new cheap shocks the seller just put on the car with Bilsteins. Someday I will buy a newer MB diesel, but for right now this car is very easy to live with. John

It doesn't really matter what someone thinks their car is worth, how many miles it has left, etc. Value is based on what the market will bear.

Unless an '87 S-class books at $11k or they're regularly selling for $11k with those miles, it isn't worth $11k, period. I bought my very straight rust-free '87 190D Turbo for $1350, so it's worth $1350. Book on the car is about $700 in clean condition last I checked, if it needs any work at all NADA on-line values it at $0. If someone bought one from a dealer with a bad transmission for $2k, they better like the car because it isn't worth what it'd cost to have the transmission rebuilt, they'll be "upside down" quickly. Same for the SDL, the PO probably dumped it because it needed repairs that exceeded its value.

For another example I bought a Triumph GT6 when I was a teenager, way below book, and eventually totalled it. I paid a lawyer to try and get me book value from the insurance company as that was IMO its market value, the insurance company satisfied the court with my registration (sales tax) that market value was established by my purchase price.

I learned through this process that if I had paid substantially above book value, whether in purchase or repair costs, I would have to prove to the court that it was for some reason worth more than average retail, a difficult thing to prove if the car is not exceptional and appraised/documented. Receipts for parts and service mean nothing towards value.

This SDL is worth NADA plus or minus, not double or triple just because it will have a new head. The new head will be considered necessary to maintain its value at NADA. Totaling this car or re-selling it after the necessary repairs will net you NADA plus or minus its condition & minus the cost of necessary repairs.

If the car was misrepresented, you have some remedies which vary by state. Timing is important, get on it immediately, call the CA Secretary of State's office to get started. If you still want the car, you might find yourself in a situation where you will be given the option of either keeping the car as-is, or returning it for a refund, and will have to choose.

Best of luck,

- Jeff Miller
190DT

IMHO, the court erred. In order for there to be a market, you need more than one product and more than one buyer. If all you need for a market value is one product and one seller, then market value becomes purchase price. If market value=selling price, then we wouldn't have buy and flip real estate investors.
Book value, on the other hand, is also not a measure of market value. But if you could have shown completed Ebay auctions to the court of a similar vehicle with different sales prices than your purchase price, you should have been able to establish a different market value than your purchase price.
Absent any other data, the court might assume selling price=market value but I don't think this makes it so.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I have been to a few 3rd World Countries. All of them have a bazaar and u get all sorts of things, including stolen goods, sellers telling all kinds of tales under the sun to make a sale.

They also have auctions. If u look carefully, u can see some of their croonies jacking up the price. IN Australia, houses r auctioned, unlike the US, where u have a listing and make ur bid privately. I have attended a few of these auctions in Australia and if u watch carefully, u will see their people jacking the price up.

I have made a couple of purchases on Ebay, none have been what they say it is. Lost some money, not much, enough to say u will not be seeing me buying anything on ebay.

In the bidding frenzy, u can get carried away. Either be there or have someone trusted who can gauge the value of the item u want to purchase. Like they tell me in those 3rd world countries, never buy anthing at night - u need good, bright sunlight to make a good buy.

If u feel u need to bid, buy a picasso or renior - there r not many of them and u will be buying something valuable. There r many MBs around. There r just as many on autotrader or newspaper listings, where u deal directly with the dealer or owner.

Like in the bazaars, the price starts low and before u know it u get sucked in. I personally, stay away from ebay.

I have an idea - I may consider listing a couple of tomatoes and onions on ebay and I hope all of u do bid!

The listing is rather ambiguous. "no known anomalies" could mean that they did not bother to test the car in the first place. All of the advertising focuses on the cosmetics.

The other posting is correct. There is no 'as-is' disclaimer. Therefore you have some recourse and California does have certain consumer protection laws over car dealers. Assuming this guy is a car dealer. Look up his business license online or call CAL State offices etc..

Anyway, if all else fails, you can inform the seller that you will find every
website for disgruntled consumers and post the story and discredit his 'reputation'.

yeah, and have the odometer checked. THAT is a crime to tamper with.
Those digits look funny.

Good Luck to you.

DP

__________________
1979 300D 220 K miles
1995 C280 109 K miles
1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles SOLD
********************
1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.
SAN FRANCISCO/(*San Diego)
1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD

So you think I could find a one owner 1984 300TD with zero rust and no dash cracks, clean interior, roof rack cross bars, 147K miles, a trailer hitch with built in brake light connections and good paint how much in Cali? Figure it needs tires and SLS accumulators. I just bought one... now guess how much I could sell it for in the NoCal area. I stand behind what I said. Even if they are even or close.. why buy a car from one coast sight unseen and then have shipping cost to the other to contend with?

yep, I found a very nice 300D in Glendale once... Missed it. And then a wagon in Hollywood, it was bought just before I arrived, but it was pristine. You just have to go and do some searching. LA being the second largest city in the country and being unlike New York, everyone drives. Huge aftermarket for cars. Very little rain and humidity and the smog tends to keep the sun off the cars (just kidding on the last bit). NoCal and SoCal are very different places - they should really be two states.

As far as shipping to the other coast, it would have to be a nice, nice car. There are some SDLs of that calibre. Sounds like misrepresentation of sale in the case of the SDL in this thread. If I found a car in FL I'd have my relatives go get it and then I'd visit and drive it home.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Eh? (sorry for the highjack)

I don't know dude, do you own shopping. I stopped looking 4 years ago when I bought my SDL.

If you're looking for kudos on what you paid for you're car great! Good job! Contrats. You are the master.

I merely pointed out that there are quite a few good mercedes in LA area. It's too bad the OP got burned on this one. But it'll make a fine car when fixed.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

The insurance companies are still going to come out ahead, no matter what. For instance in this real life scenario. A drunk driver came flying down the street and completely TOTALLED "TWO" cars, one a 96 or 98 Ford Taurus and the other a 98 Grand Prix and left beer cans strewn all across the street as he landed in his pickup on the other side of the street. The two totalled cars were parked in the YARD's drive way. The drunk driver's insurance company MADE A DECISION and totalled the owners cars out and didn't even consider having the cars repaired or replaced and then on top of that, offered $4,000.00 for the Ford and about $6,000.00 for the Grand Prix and more than $10,000.00 was still owed on the Grand Prix. Somebody total your car out and you still have to make a payment on a car that you don't have and the insurance company didn't even pay the car off, just left you stuck with no car and a NOTE. I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT and went to see a lawyer on behalf of the owners and the lawyer basically told me (after his upfront $50.00 consultation fee) that that was just the way it was. I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT! Your car is sitting in your yard and the insurance company's client just PLOWS into your vehicles and the insurance company decides if your car is to be totalled or not and then just look in a blue book and decides what to pay you, as if all cars are the same and all cars mean the exact same to every individual owner. I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT! Anyway, I recommended the owners tell the insurance companies to take their checks and go buy two cars just like the ones their drunk client destroyed and park them back in the yard just like they were before the mishap. The lawyer wrote a letter and the insurance company upped the ante a few dollars but not enough to cover REPLACEMENT for the damage that their client caused. The end result was the owners of the totalled cars suffered LOSSES when they were in the house asleep and would have gotten killed if one of the kids just happen to be sitting in the yard in or next to the car, drinking a beer and listening to the radio, when their cars got plowed through by this insurance's company's drunk client. Anyway, it just doesn't seem fair.

About your car, once you get that diesel to run good, it doesn't take much for it to run almost like new and especially if you have some good seats, some good shocks, good tires, a proper wheel alignment and a good sound system. With that big moon roof, you really don't need the A/C. My "worst" Mercedes diesel, the one that smokes like a train leaving the neighborhood until it warms up in about 4 or 5 minutes, and has MAJOR blowby, will blow the doors off of most cars on the interstate. Only NEW cars can keep up with this diesel or at least I haven't seen no other brand of old cars running as smoothly as this diesel does. It will run 90 mph, but I don't like to go that fast because I can't afford to get a ticket and allow the insurance companies to dig even further into me. Just keep your distance from the other drivers and keep your eyes open and don't let anybody destroy your INVESTMENT. And some here on this site even say the thing will run on the oil that restuarants throw out of the back door.

BenzDiesel

Well, can you tell me how a 69 Camaro brings in $110,000.00 on the Jackson Barrett auction when the car cost about $3,000.00 new? You are correct in your analysis describing what value is, but sometimes you have to be able to determine valve for your own self. Insurance companies value is not a value in your best interests. Just like the bank pays you 1% on your savings account but charges you up to 21% on money that you borrowed from them. Me personally, I much prefer to have an 87 SDL as opposed to a 2003 Honda or Ford Expedition or Volkswagen.

BenzDiesel

Read the ebay buyer's seller's policy, generally if you file a complaint ebay will automatically freeze a paypal payment and can refund that payment without the buyer's objection, since ebay own both they dictate how the financial transactions are ultimately handled...usually to the benefit of the buyer.

But...unless the seller offers a waranty in the description or shipping details section, there is none. All items on ebay are sold as is unless specified otherwise. Misleading ads are hard to resolve because they are subject to interpretation. A statement like the ac works, can have different meanings to different people, the seller may view that if the compressor clutch engages and it spins...it works, you on the otherhand may want it to blow cold say 70 deg, but another buyer wants 60 deg, so it is subject to interpretation.

Unless blatant lies are in the ad it will be difficult to resolve other discrepancies. Small claims is a way to go and as mentioned before if the dealer has a dealers license in CA there may be other rules that apply. Small claims could help but will probably cost more in time and money for you to pursue than what you can get, usually the SC limit is $2500 or less award. In the end it will not be easy to resolve.

When dealing with ebay always put on your gambler's cap, it is a crap shoot at times, there are good and bad sellers out there, but in reality you should never spend more than you are willing to loose, just like gambling.

Best of luck

__________________
Stable Mates:
1987 300TD 310K mi (Hans)
2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee OM642 165k mi (Benzrokee)