First impressions, thoughts on the 300TD rebuild/swap project - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 03-05-2006, 11:23 PM

First, thanks to those who suggested that I was 180 degrees off on the timing - I must say, a huge part of solving that problem was suspending my disbelief that it would run with the timing so far off - that'll show me! Jeeeezzz... Gonna have to cut back on assembling engines at 11PM. Not to mention how much easier it is to R&R the IP when its not actually in the car. Also, and this occured to me *afterwards*, of course - but, should anyone find themselves in a similar predicament and you are sure that the timing is right, but one rotation of the crank off, I would remove the rocker arms and spin the cam 180 degrees instead of wrestling with the IP.

So after getting the IP on the compression stroke (still cannot get over the stupidity of that!) it fires up immediately, running beautifully. So far, starts easily w/ the glow plugs at 20 degrees and at 40 degrees without. No smoke, idles fine. Some vibration at idle, I'll have to readjust the rack damper, its barely in there at the moment...

Other random thoughts on the project, maybe of use to somebody, along with the random question...

The wagon was a California car w/ trap oxidizer, etc. My parts car was a federal, I used the federal turbo, intake & exhaust manifolds. No trouble, but you need the federal downpipe, or you can cut a section out of the Cali downpipe and weld it back together if you already have one. The federal air cleaner setup seemed lame to me, so I used the Cali air cleaner. If you cut the pipe coming out of the Cali air cleaner where it bends and use the original Cali rubber elbow piece, it works perfectly.

What was the point of that line running from the fed air cleaner to the oil pan? The Cali air cleaner doesn't have it and life seems fine without it. Though I now have a nipple down there on the oil pan that is unused, doesn't leak yet. The Cali oil pan was destroyed in the rod-throwing, but doesn't seem to have that nipple.

I removed the EGR valve, fabbed up a laughable but functional blocking plate - are the two vaccuum solenoid valves on the left side fender for the EGR? Anyone ever remove that recirculation valve from the turbo, or is it reasonable to just disconnect and leave in place?

So, out I went for a drive. Bear in mind I have owned Saabs (900 turbos) exclusively for the better part of the last decade. This is no Saab, both good, bad, and just different. I am totally impressed by the suspension on this cars, perhaps the sedans without the SLS are different, but wow, this is nice! No sports car, but the ride is incredibly smooth without being wallowy, just like you're floating over the road. There seems to be a lot of roll though, and the steering seems a little on the vague side, though I cannot really detect any play and the car tracks fine - perhaps this is just my point of comparison with the go-cart style suspension and steering of the Saabs where you can feel a pebble if you run it over? Still, this is a very comfortable and smooth car. Also, the Benz isn't nearly as slow as I had feared, and the diesel sound at idle becomes nice and smooth as I take off, again, sounds great! I doubt the boost is up to spec and from the archives, it seems that tweaking the ALDA would speed it up a bit, but I am suspicious that the Benz will never be able to push you back in your seat at 80 mph like my Saabs can

Though, I must also say, after driving this car for a grand total so far of not even 50 miles, I am dying for a standard transmission. What's up with 1st gear? I'm hitting 3000 RPM at oh say 5 mph in my driveway, then after it gets 2nd, it takes off - who ever heard of a luxury car w/ a granny gear? Did they think somebody was going to pull a car trailer or something? I'd bet those of you with a standard find these cars *almost* quick!

I am resisting scouring the bargain papers for one right now... Trying not to tear it apart again after getting it running for a whole day

The seats are big and comfortable, but no side support???

Instrument cluster lighting seems awful dim, too.

On the whole, though, I am really impressed. I bought this car because it looked interesting, had been sitting for a couple years w/ a blown motor, but otherwise was beautiful. I had no idea if I'd like it or not when I got it going, but fear not, I'm slowly being sucked in

So far, I'm out

$700 for the car, an 85 300TD w/ a thrown rod showing 195k, otherwise nice

$300 for a running parts car, an 85 300D w/ 180k, running and shifting fine, looking absolutely hideous inside and out, with a huge poster of Al Sharpton in the trunk, an old air conditioner and dorm-size fridge in the back seat along w/ a bunch of quickrete... "comes with the car"... rrriigghttt....

$600 in parts (mainly rings, bearings, chain guides, seals & gaskets, engine mounts, etc)

$150 to the machine shop for cleaning various parts and cleaning & honing the block

and a whole lotta time in the garage late at night

Just have to change the rubber piece and bearing at the center of the driveshaft - the rubber is totally shot, vibrates nastily at around 30mph, then perfectly smooth, though with a funky shhshhshh scrapy/clicky noise at speeds above around 20mph from under and behind the shifter...

Thanks for the help on the project, thanks for reading, if you got this far

dieseldiehard · #2 03-06-2006, 12:04 AM

You'll never have a car that handles like a SAAB in the 300TD. But I saw something a week ago, working in the back when along came a elderly woman in a new SAAB who lost it in the turn and hit a 123 parked at the curb (not mine!) The 123 was in neutral and it was a stick shift o/w if in park the damage would have been more severe. The LR 123 fender was a little mushed in but the wheel still turned and the car was driveable. The SAAB was another story (Sob Story?). There were pieces of it all all over the place, black plastic mostly. The airfilter was up on the sidewalk, the front bumper was hanging to the pavement on the side that hit the 123, man it was really smashed up! It had to be towed. The driver said something got in her eye.

As for the wagon instrument illumination. You are supposed to carry a small flashlight (that's what I did for years) or replace the 2 bulbs with 5W bulbs and bypass the rheostat/dimmer (it's like dim and dimmer! why did they have to waste money on the fool thing?)

Switching to 15 in wheels and decent radial tires (aren't all tires radial nowadays

) helps the
handling. Its been discovered that non-turbo wagons used stiffer springs so a swap in that regards might also stiffen up the chassis as will new Bilsteins up front. I would suggest Bilstein Comfort shocks as opposed to their HD shocks which I found were too harsh.
A turbo wagon makes a great highway crusiers, I drive cross country every year or so in one or the other of my two 300TD's. I can blast along at 80+ without straining and pass or dodge most SUV's that tend to lumber along (esp in turns!) even loaded with 5 passengers and luggage and get 22 +/- MPG in the '85 wagon.
The ALDA is worth a tweak if you drive a lot in stop and go traffic o/w not so big a deal as it doesn't help with steady speed driving.
Oh and check the flex discs while your at changing the center support. The driveline bearing might be allright its usually the rubber surround that gets worn out. Be careful to not get the driveshaft out of balance, mark it if you have to with paint etc. if messing with the locking nut or the center bearing.
Keep us informed of the progress on your project! You are sucked into it now I can tell!
DDH

Quote:

Originally Posted by es9

First, thanks to those who suggested that I was 180 degrees off on the timing - I must say, a huge part of solving that problem was suspending my disbelief that it would run with the timing so far off - that'll show me! Jeeeezzz... Gonna have to cut back on assembling engines at 11PM. Not to mention how much easier it is to R&R the IP when its not actually in the car. Also, and this occured to me *afterwards*, of course - but, should anyone find themselves in a similar predicament and you are sure that the timing is right, but one rotation of the crank off, I would remove the rocker arms and spin the cam 180 degrees instead of wrestling with the IP.

So after getting the IP on the compression stroke (still cannot get over the stupidity of that!) it fires up immediately, running beautifully. So far, starts easily w/ the glow plugs at 20 degrees and at 40 degrees without. No smoke, idles fine. Some vibration at idle, I'll have to readjust the rack damper, its barely in there at the moment...

Other random thoughts on the project, maybe of use to somebody, along with the random question...

The wagon was a California car w/ trap oxidizer, etc. My parts car was a federal, I used the federal turbo, intake & exhaust manifolds. No trouble, but you need the federal downpipe, or you can cut a section out of the Cali downpipe and weld it back together if you already have one. The federal air cleaner setup seemed lame to me, so I used the Cali air cleaner. If you cut the pipe coming out of the Cali air cleaner where it bends and use the original Cali rubber elbow piece, it works perfectly.

What was the point of that line running from the fed air cleaner to the oil pan? The Cali air cleaner doesn't have it and life seems fine without it. Though I now have a nipple down there on the oil pan that is unused, doesn't leak yet. The Cali oil pan was destroyed in the rod-throwing, but doesn't seem to have that nipple.

I removed the EGR valve, fabbed up a laughable but functional blocking plate - are the two vaccuum solenoid valves on the left side fender for the EGR? Anyone ever remove that recirculation valve from the turbo, or is it reasonable to just disconnect and leave in place?

So, out I went for a drive. Bear in mind I have owned Saabs (900 turbos) exclusively for the better part of the last decade. This is no Saab, both good, bad, and just different. I am totally impressed by the suspension on this cars, perhaps the sedans without the SLS are different, but wow, this is nice! No sports car, but the ride is incredibly smooth without being wallowy, just like you're floating over the road. There seems to be a lot of roll though, and the steering seems a little on the vague side, though I cannot really detect any play and the car tracks fine - perhaps this is just my point of comparison with the go-cart style suspension and steering of the Saabs where you can feel a pebble if you run it over? Still, this is a very comfortable and smooth car. Also, the Benz isn't nearly as slow as I had feared, and the diesel sound at idle becomes nice and smooth as I take off, again, sounds great! I doubt the boost is up to spec and from the archives, it seems that tweaking the ALDA would speed it up a bit, but I am suspicious that the Benz will never be able to push you back in your seat at 80 mph like my Saabs can

Though, I must also say, after driving this car for a grand total so far of not even 50 miles, I am dying for a standard transmission. What's up with 1st gear? I'm hitting 3000 RPM at oh say 5 mph in my driveway, then after it gets 2nd, it takes off - who ever heard of a luxury car w/ a granny gear? Did they think somebody was going to pull a car trailer or something? I'd bet those of you with a standard find these cars *almost* quick!

I am resisting scouring the bargain papers for one right now... Trying not to tear it apart again after getting it running for a whole day

The seats are big and comfortable, but no side support???

Instrument cluster lighting seems awful dim, too.

On the whole, though, I am really impressed. I bought this car because it looked interesting, had been sitting for a couple years w/ a blown motor, but otherwise was beautiful. I had no idea if I'd like it or not when I got it going, but fear not, I'm slowly being sucked in

So far, I'm out

$700 for the car, an 85 300TD w/ a thrown rod showing 195k, otherwise nice

$300 for a running parts car, an 85 300D w/ 180k, running and shifting fine, looking absolutely hideous inside and out, with a huge poster of Al Sharpton in the trunk, an old air conditioner and dorm-size fridge in the back seat along w/ a bunch of quickrete... "comes with the car"... rrriigghttt....

$600 in parts (mainly rings, bearings, chain guides, seals & gaskets, engine mounts, etc)

$150 to the machine shop for cleaning various parts and cleaning & honing the block

and a whole lotta time in the garage late at night

Just have to change the rubber piece and bearing at the center of the driveshaft - the rubber is totally shot, vibrates nastily at around 30mph, then perfectly smooth, though with a funky shhshhshh scrapy/clicky noise at speeds above around 20mph from under and behind the shifter...

Thanks for the help on the project, thanks for reading, if you got this far

t walgamuth · #3 03-06-2006, 07:29 PM

is a nice tight handling car.

but the benz handles very nicely too, it is just set up completely differently. once used to the handling you will find it very useful. excellent handling even on a very rough road. only the french cars do rough road handling better.

tom w

Bajaman · #4 03-06-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

What was the point of that line running from the fed air cleaner to the oil pan? The Cali air cleaner doesn't have it and life seems fine without it. Though I now have a nipple down there on the oil pan that is unused, doesn't leak yet. The Cali oil pan was destroyed in the rod-throwing, but doesn't seem to have that nipple.

That line is the oil return from the oil-coalescer (oil vapor is removed from blow-by gasses). Yes, you can live without it, but you will not like the smell of just venting your blow-by so you will at least want it routed to the intake somehow (cali version), and you'll want to plug the check valve on the oil pan.
As for the recirc. valve I have no idea, I don't have one

bb