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  #1  
Old 03-07-2006, 10:02 PM
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Here we go!

I was informed of this several months ago at a meeting with some top dogs in the energy industry. I posted it here and some folks had the guts to call me a liar. Morons. Well, here we go. My diesel Toyota Camry may end up being the diesel powered car I keep because it does 41 mpg which is neat.

And oh, forgive me if this has already been posted.

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  #2  
Old 03-07-2006, 11:28 PM
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So, BR, what is the point of your post? Do you need the affirmation that you were correct?
41mpg will be very nice I'm sure, but it will still be a Camry....
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  #3  
Old 03-07-2006, 11:47 PM
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Those Toyota diesels really put into prespective the poor fuel economy of MB diesels.
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  #4  
Old 03-08-2006, 01:13 AM
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...or the heavy weight
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  #5  
Old 03-08-2006, 01:34 AM
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what year camry do you have that is diesel?
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  #6  
Old 03-08-2006, 01:41 AM
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I've wondered sometimes what the mpg's would be for a 616 or 617 planted into a more aero-dynamic vehicle that weighed about 1000lbs less and had a modern 5+ speed transmission, I bet they'd be a LOT higher. Mid 30's at least....probably mid 40's or higher with a 616!
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  #7  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:03 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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i never

heard of a camry diesel.

do i live in a vacuum?

benzes arent heavy for what they are. a front driver four cylinder is of course going to be lighter than a rear drive five cyl with iron block, the camry will prob have dinky drum brakes on the rear and a mushy rear suspension so why be jealous? and anyway i bet the camry is not that much lighter anyway. what does it weigh anyway?

tom w
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #8  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbzkid
Those Toyota diesels really put into prespective the poor fuel economy of MB diesels.
True but if you factor in the monthly car payments for the cost of new Camry diesel will that offset the extra money we spend to fill up our MB diesel cars? Will they be as reliable? I would rather pay a little more for fuel and come out better in an accident in my heavier 300SD. The newer genration of MB diesels are getting 33+ mpg but they cost a lot more money than my 1983 300SD to be sure. If we changed our rear end gears to lower the revs at highway cruising speeds I bet we would enjoy some better mpg, but at a cost of losing a lot of time getting up these beasts up to highway speeds. Too bad we do not have a overdrive like a lot of cars for better mpg on the highway at lower engine rpm's. John
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  #9  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:43 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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so

this camry thing is brand new?

what do they cost?

yeah changing to a higher gear will yeild better mileage.

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:50 AM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyL
41mpg will be very nice I'm sure, but it will still be a Camry....
How about THIS?

A 1990 Mitsubishi Delica 4X4 TurboDiesel

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Toyota-Camry
"First generation (1983–6)
In 1982 for the 1983 model year, the Camry became an independent model line, and was sold as a midsize four-door sedan and five-door hatchback. There were limited exports, predominantly to right-hand-drive markets. At this point, Camry was positioned above the Carina and Corona, two other mid-sized models made by Toyota. A twin was announced at this point: the Toyota Vista.

In North America, the Camry was available with a 92 hp SAE (68 kW) 2.0 L I4 engine or a 74 hp 2.0 L I4 turbodiesel engine, and could be purchased with either a five-speed manual transmission or a four-speed automatic. In contrast to the rear wheel drive Celica Camry, the Toyota Camry was a front wheel drive vehicle built on an all-new platform.

The design of the first-generation Camry fit well within the box-shaped trends of the early 1980s. Additionally, the vehicle size and available options were characteristic of Japanese-designed cars of the time; the Camry was a small, inexpensive sedan with solid but spartan construction and competed indirectly against larger American counterparts."

Last edited by ForcedInduction; 03-08-2006 at 03:55 AM.
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:56 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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my first reaction

to the little mitsu was negative but the more i looked the more interesting it got. too bad canadian only.

i have no clue what i would use it for but what a vehicle.

oh i see you have posted info on the old camry diesel. it was available in the us? never heard of one or seen one.

tom w
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2006, 07:17 AM
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Not sure if you two were trying to be sarcastic but I'll answer with a straight face anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyL
So, BR, what is the point of your post? Do you need the affirmation that you were correct?
41mpg will be very nice I'm sure, but it will still be a Camry....
Point of my post was to inform people of what is going on. Just like other people post diesel-related news/articles here all the time. That's all. Nothing else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbzkid
Those Toyota diesels really put into prespective the poor fuel economy of MB diesels.
They do? I know a guy whose 190D consistently gets between 38 and 40 mpg. Pretty close to that of the Toyota and even more impressive when you consider that the 190D weighs 1000 pounds more than the Toyota.
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2006, 07:17 AM
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First generation Camry pretty flimsy

The first-gen Camry, IMHO, can't be directly compared to a Mercedes-in this area of the world, they have all rusted to pieces. They were also smaller than the Benzes, but that engine does have a decent reputation, the pickups also used it in that time period and I've seen a few of those still on the road.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-2006, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpchleapas
True but if you factor in the monthly car payments for the cost of new Camry diesel will that offset the extra money we spend to fill up our MB diesel cars?
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth
this camry thing is brand new?

what do they cost?
Take it easy guys. Indeed, very few people know that this car exists. LOL Unfortunately it won't be mine for much longer. Even I didn't know they made that car until it was brought to my attention.

Here's the story (long): I have a friend that works on cars big time. He is a big Toyota fan and owns many of them (three Camrys, two trucks, one of which is a 1981 diesel truck). One day he came to my house unannounced and asked me to help him out. He saw the Camry for sale on eBay and wanted to buy it but had no money. So, since the Camry still needed some work to be fully operational, we made a deal: I pay for the Camry initially, he'll fix it up and after that I'll keep it until he comes up with the money to pay me back, after which he will then take the car. He will raise the money by selling off some of his fleet of cars. I figured it was a good deal because I'd get the chance to live with the car for a while and besides, I still would have lent him the money he needed without even wanting those terms as he is a good friend of mine and I've done it many times before. But we did it anyway. Car was bought in Milan, TN and we there a month ago and picked it up. Took quite a lot of work to get it running perfectly and to fix all the electrical nightmares on it but this guy succeeded at doing all within 5 days.

When we got it, it wasn't running, but that was because of the diesel. Horribly bad!! Wasn't even green, it looked purplish. Brand new diesel, new fuel filters, air filter, battery, killed the EGR and some vacuum lines, Amsoil in the engine after engine flush, differential and transmission, new timing belt and water pump, coolant flush, timing adjustment, some ALDA tweaking, some IP adjustment and the car was not just running, but running smoothly with very little smoke and good power. Get this: the injectors were so dirty that it took three rounds of diesel purge to have the diesel purge being returned looking clean!! Engine has zero leaks and the car has low mileage for its age. Much in the engine bay looked like MB's own layout: the IP looks exactly the same and is from Bosch, etc. Engine has valve lashes and doesn't need valve adjustments. In the auction, the seller mentioned that he nearly overheated the engine a few times, so we sent off a sample of the oil in the engine when we purchased it for analysis. Sample came back with 0 coolant, so no damage was ever done.

So I am in possession of the car now. I've driven it for 3 straight weeks and over the same type of driving in which my 300SD does just 22-24mpg, after 3 tank re-fills and 840 miles this Camry has done 40.8mpg, 40.7mpg and 41.1mpg. It is EPA rated 30/36 mpg but it is whooping butt.

And oh, it isn't a new car. It is a 1986 Toyota Camry diesel with a 2.0L SOHC 8 Valve engine with an aluminum head and iron block. Power is just the same as that for the 300SD as both cars have the same power/torque to weight ratios. In actual driving, they felt the same power wise. The Camry engine is somewhat louder due to less soundproofing than the MB but it isn't unbearable. Car drives quite well overall. The car has much better gearing than our MBs though, doing 65MPH at just 2,000 rpm in overdrive. 80MPH is at 3,100 rpm. But due to having less soundproofing, the engine and the wind give it a noisier interior on a highway cruise.

Too bad I can't keep it, but it has been nice driving it. The guy has already come up with the money so I should be handing it over in the next few days. But he deserves the car. He spent about 6 hours each day for 5 days fixing it up. That's a lot of labor. Total cost of car, excluding labor but including purchase price, parts and cost of pick up: $2300.

tom w, the Camry weighs 2400 pounds. And sorry, but it has discs all around and no mushy rear suspension. This was a well equipped Camry for its day, as indicated by the fact that it has discs all around as well as a tachometer.

1986 Toyota Camry Turbodiesel
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  #15  
Old 03-08-2006, 08:24 AM
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I believe toyota has been selling diesel cars at least in europe for awhile. Overall suspect it might be less troublesome than the jetta tdi. If it is a direct injection engine I would expect the newer versions to be pretty good. To the best of my knowledge they are not sold in north america at present and suspect they may not be in the immediate future either. But do not really know for sure. Think the honda accord is sold with a diesel as well by the way if some people did not know but again not in north america at present. Perhaps a sane vehicle if ever sold in north america to consider. Volkswagon swore they would get the bugs out of their diesel cars a few years ago. The results to date are not good in my opinion. Combined with too many cases of poor warranty service provided by their organization plus inferior milage now compared to the earlier versions of the tdi. Perhaps the sun might also start to set on their empire. We will not be buying another new one from them anyways. Problems since day one with the last new one were brushed off with the exception of replacement of a faulty turbo. Worst customer service/relations I have ever seen. Others could be this bad but think the japanese fully realise it's not the way to go and their constantly taking a larger percentage of the market seem to verify that. I am far from being a japanese car lover. On the otherhand I will not participate with a manufacturers hype at all. They must prove they have a good product in the marketplace before I will consider it. Sales hype will no longer cut it either and I am not alone in what I think. New cars are just too expensive to chance buying potential or known garbage. It must be quite desperate for some manufactures about now as they seem to have very few schemes left to sell their junk. I think it is obvious to them that they have to build good cars or perish now and for the majority of manufactures it is probably too late. The inertia alone of their operations will finish them. The question begs an answer. Why were they so stupid to start with? Chevrolet at one time was the best buy in a car in the world when cost/depreciation /overall cost of ownership and general servicability where taken into account. What happened?

Last edited by barry123400; 03-08-2006 at 08:44 AM.
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