The Jetta Tdi spanks the Prius Hybrid - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

raMBow · #31 03-17-2006, 07:19 PM

I know it is all the stuff that we put on, I shrug my shoulders that technologically we have not progressed. Tell me if Honda had worked on the CVCC engine (problems with it really was emissions, I'd have to look back but way lean burn) they could not have gotten more out of it over the past 20 years.... Sure we have the extra weight..

Oh well, I know, I know. Honda could have done all of it and more, had they not been contrained by emissions or saddled with our ever expanding Christmas list of goodies. Hey I could have kept the TDI, but I went for less mileage, more room, tons of safety everything and features.

Sad, but true.

Hatterasguy · #32 03-17-2006, 09:29 PM

I bet we can get those numbers today. Anyone know what a base model say C270CDI with a manual trans is rated at? Or maybe a C200CDI if they make a C with a smaller diesel.

This country just isn't into MPG, gas is about $2.50 a gallon here and I bet its $1 more by the end of the year. Still selling big SUV's by the truckload.

Its a shame I'd buy a nice little C class with a diesel, I bet with a 6spd stick and some AMG suspension mods it would be a downright fun car to drive.

greasybenz · #33 03-17-2006, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Still selling big SUV's by the truckload.

Well didnt you know?? ford and chevy has a big sale going on the bigger the engine the more the discount!!!!

Its not that suv's are bad but you dont use them as daily drivers to take only 1 person from point a to point b. We have an expedition but only used it for vacations and we fill every seat up my dad is the driver mom is the passager myself, sister and little brother in the second row, and grandparents in 3rd row. But now we want to get rid of the beast and move into a suburban diesel so we can use it for biodiesel.

Now as for my neighbors it just makes no sense. They have a chevy tahoe that the wife takes to and from work and doesnt drop off the kids to skool they walk. And the husband has a chevy pickup that he takes to and from work and no its not a work truck its just his daily driver

Thats what i cant stand using the truck and suv as daily drivers and carrying only ONE person inside.

Hatterasguy · #34 03-17-2006, 09:42 PM

Ok let me say this SUV's are great for camping and hauling stuff. I can sleep in the back insted of in a tent ect, more comfy then a pick up bed when its 20 out.

But a lot of people use them as primary cars. One of my good friends was just given a brand new 06 Yukon, granted it is a real nice truck. But he just drives it around by himself 90% of the time and uses it to commute with. At least in my area their are a lot of women driving alone in Escalades, Range rovers, and Suburban, Yukon's ect. Come on I have a hard time imagining why the wife needs a 4wd Range Rover to go to the store in.

Whatever its a free country.

imagesinthewind · #35 03-17-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwthomas1

What Americans need to be weened off is not oil, its high HP vehicles. RT

You missed my point completely.

We DO need to be weened off oil.
The ethanol car TODAY isn't the best technology, but IN THE FUTURE we may be able to make it more efficient. Give it a little time.
In the future, the future without oil, it won't matter if those cars get better milage than today's cars. We'll (or they) will be driving alternative energy cars and what they get is what they get.
As for diesel, IT'S still a petrol product and if there is no oil, or a shortage, there won't be diesel fuel either! A car that runs on renewable fuels is what we should be worrying about today.

Hatterasguy · #36 03-17-2006, 09:50 PM

Its all supply and demand economics. Their is a lot of oil in Russia, like 300-400 years worth last I heard. They also suspect a very very large field in northern Iraq, where they love us!

As the price per barrel rises it becomes more viable to extract the oil from Russia.

Oil is going to get more expensive, but I wouldn't be surprised if 50-100 years from now if we were still using a lot of it.

Not to mention this country is sitting on about 400 years worth of coal.

We will get off oil but only when an alternitive becomes cheaper.

raMBow · #37 03-17-2006, 10:05 PM

Didn't I hear something today that Mexico has just found "the Mother Load"?

Coal shale extraction out West etc.

But yes we should be using less, Biodiesel needs to come up, but supply and demand dictate otherwise for now.

I still miss my TDI and Honda HF.

The Warden · #38 03-18-2006, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagesinthewind

As for diesel, IT'S still a petrol product and if there is no oil, or a shortage, there won't be diesel fuel either! A car that runs on renewable fuels is what we should be worrying about today.

How do you think biodiesel fits into the equation?

Diesel Giant · #39 03-18-2006, 09:09 AM

I have had my '98 Jetta Tdi since new and have put over 235k miles on it. I can get 50mpg with cargo and passengers in it all day long. Yes the stop and go mileage will obviously be less. But I can carry 5 fat people and all their luggage. The Prius cannot do that! Plus I would already have had to change out the Prius $5k battery pack twice!

No thanks to hybrids for me. Diesel is a much more viable option as long as we continue to use combustion engines.

arcticathlon · #40 03-18-2006, 10:36 AM

i want to ad a factor about the hybrids that has not been mentioned yet. The latest consumer report had a large 4 page article on hybrid technology and if it makes sense. they came up with the fact that hybrids technology does not pay for itself in gas savings. they factor in Fuel savings, Tax credits (60,000 vehicle cap per manufacturer, which will phase out soon, making hybrids $650 to $3,150 more), Higher retail price, and Extra depriciation, Higher insurance premiums, and Higher maintenance and repair. there is lots more in the arcticle, but this makes me lean in the way of a jetta myself.

if anyone wants me to scan the article i can email it, send me a pm.

t walgamuth · #41 03-18-2006, 11:42 AM

have you looked at one and driven it?

i doubt that the jetta has more room inside. it is like a baby sdl in there, very roomey.

tom w

greasybenz · #42 05-10-2006, 02:12 AM

Old topic. Here is a little update.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060424/FREE/60417021/1008/FREE

aersloat · #43 05-10-2006, 05:24 AM

One reason that Hybrids have taken on such traction is emissions. Sure, the Jetta TDI gets great mileage, but it is a 45 state car. The volkswagen diesels rate near the bottom in the air pollution score (1) from the EPA, as does the E320 CDI. Some trucks get 0, but the diesels are at the bottom for passenger cars. The Prius gets a 9.5 with the CA emissions package (8 with Federal). There are any number of other cars that get 9.5, but 9.5 is as high as it goes for now.

So, we all know that the diesels get good mileage. We also know that just about every car company out there has a diesel offering somewhere in the world. Many have cars that better what we are seeing out of volkswagen here. But none besides Volkswagen and Mercedes are willing to take the effort to bring these CARS to the US when they can't sell them in CA (not to mention MA, ME, NY and VT in VW's case).

Mercedes BlueTec promises to deliver 50 state cars. But don't kid yourself. It is unlikely that BlueTec will come anywhere close to the 9.5 ratings that hybrids and even many conventional gas cars can attain. And as anyone who has lived in LA can point out, emissions matters in the real world.

It would be interesting to see what a Jetta, Golf, or E320 CDI rated out at if it were run on B100 or even B50. I would imagine the results would be far more favorable.

biopete · #44 05-10-2006, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aersloat

One reason that Hybrids have taken on such traction is emissions.
It would be interesting to see what a Jetta, Golf, or E320 CDI rated out at if it were run on B100 or even B50. I would imagine the results would be far more favorable.

And tailpipe emmissions are only half of the story. Add in the lifecycle energy balance of biodiesel, 3.2 vs. gasoline .805 [1] and the fact that biodiesel does not contribute global to warming (virtually) and a VW TDI really spanks the prius in the environmental category i bet.

[1] http://www.mda.state.mn.us/ethanol/balance.html

braverichard · #45 05-10-2006, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

I'm not disputing the benefits of the TDI over the Prius. I'm simply annoyed by the hidden agendas of the authors, including some members on this forum.

Just run an honest test of the two vehicles........on the same course.......in the same direction........by the same driver. Than you have good data to draw an honest conclusion.

I too have been hoping for a fair comparison and I've read two so far.

First one was a drive from one destination to another in the ML320 CDI and the Lexus RX400H hybrid and overall, the ML diesel super spanked the Lexus - on the exact same trip, same route, same conditions, same day and time - by getting over 5mpg more than the Lexus. There were sections of street driving included in which the hybrid did better than the diesel as expected but the drop in highway mileage suffered by the hybrid was so much that the diesel was so much ahead in overall mpg.

Second comparison was also like the first. I read it in last month's issue of one of the auto magazines I subscribe to. I can't remember which one it was but I think it was Automotive Magazine. Again, all factors were kept the same for all the vehicles in that test (Prius, Accord Hybrid, Jeep Commander, Chevrolet Covette and Jetta TDI) and the Jetta did better than all the other cars in a mixture of city driving and highway cruising.