Who wants a Dodge Magnum, that's one ugly car?

I think it looks cool.

But my point is that you can almost buy a new wagon for that money. Subi has some excellent AWD wagons.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Your right, I just like the old ones better. A TD would have to VERY nice to be worth $18K.

I'm not saying that it makes sense to buy a w123 in the mid teens, I'm simply saying that it is happening...People really want those old cars and don't care what they have to pay to get them. There again, most of them are well healed and can afford to satisfy a whim here and there..

Ill be the first one to admit the older cars electrical systems and ride don't really compare to the Mercedes, however those minor improvements are not worth the price difference between them. The Volvo's are MUCH simpler cars in comparison and therefore easier to work on. The later model V70 wagons are quite honestly on par with Mercedes handling and electrical wise. I have driven several V70 wagons and they have ride quality thats on par with many Mercedes cars and are as quiet as my w-140. The seats in the V70's are absolutely amazing as well and make any w-124 wagons seats seem quite small and uncomfortable.

The thing I have never liked about Mercedes Wagons is their inability to make decisions based on the realistic usage. Most Mercedes owners are likely to have more than one Mercedes car yet Mercedes tried to make the wagons a "catch all" vehicle and in the process its not very good any any of the things it tries to do. For example its primary design is to haul cargo yet its sharply raked rear window, full size spare and massive strut towers makes its cargo space small in comparison to other wagons.

If I want to be comfortable I drive my S class. If I want to haul Antiques and priceless artwork its highly unlikely I will be driving through cones at high speed and need the handling of the Mercedes Wagon.

The Newer Mercedes wagons are even more impractical. They start off at about 53K and average about 60K for a middle of the line model. The V70 starts at 29K and moves to about 37K quite well loaded. It becomes pretty obvious why Volvo has outsold Mercedes on station wagons for many years now.

If your about to plunk 10K down on an 18 year old wagon do yourself a favor and just test drive a V70 or other Volvo wagon just so you can see what the "competition" does differently. Im certain it might make you think twice about things. 10K buys a very nice 1998-2000 V70 these days.

How good are Volvo wagons your ask? The richest man in the world founder of Ikea furniture stores drives a Volvo 240 wagon nearly identical to mine.

http://www.forbesautos.com/advice/toptens/billionaire/05-ingvar_kamprad.html

http://beostar.paunix.org/240

You may be correct about the utility of these wagons, but I suspect that anyone considering spending $18K on a 123 wagon isn't going to be carrying anything in it anyway. For that money, you are buying a collectable car, and some people seem to favor wagons. I assume the price is being driven by the fact that they are rarer than sedans, not the fact that they carry more stuff. BTW, I don't really understand the market for the new MB wagons (or the Volvo wagons) either, but someone buys these things for $60k.

Heh heh It was 10K but thats not really important. I think your right though about the "collectable" value. Not really sure how one would consider a 123 collectable since there were so many made and are not really that old yet. If I were going to sink money into a collectable car it would be an SL where there is more demand and the side benefits of owning a roadster. Additionally some of the older Volvo wagons (pre 240) seem much more interesting (and are even lower production) than the 123. As well I kind of missed the fact that the original poster was looking at a 123 rather than 124 like what I was thinking. 10K for a 123 is even more insane and bordering on lunacy. 123's are simple enough that if you found one that was one step out of the junkyard 10K would more than bring it back to near new condition. If you found a "reasonable" one in good mechanical condition you could do paint and interior for a LOT less. Of course someone would have to shop around and think for themselves and invest some time into doing a restoration something American consumers would rather just throw money at instead.

I do understand the market for the Volvo wagons but not the new MB ones. The Volvo's start at 27K and are comfortable and versitile vehicles that can also haul cargo. Volvo also makes the evil T5 and R wagons that look perfectly normal (especially when debadged) but can suck the chrome off of most performance cars. Mercedes wagons start at 53K which is about 10K-12K more than the top of the line V70 T5.

I love Mercedes cars and think they make one hell of a sedan and some rather nice roadsters. The translation just does not work for the wagon especially for the price.

Actually the $18k was referring to an early post of an eBay car with a BIN of $18.5K. I'm not much of a wagon fan either, but the wagons (like the CDs) are rarer than the sedans and should be worth more. I've personally seen a very original 123 300CD (with about 35K miles) sell for $25K. IMHO, you couldn't bring a beat-up 123 to anywhere near "new" condition for $10K, just a decent paint job would cost almost that much. I personally wouldn't have any interest in owning a 124 or a Volvo anyway, and I can't think of very many newer cars (post 80s) that I would want to own at any price. I have a POS Jeep that I use to carry stuff if necessary.

The Volvos may rank up there with Mercedes but I've never seen a diesel and I think they are ugly. My personal favorite is the W124 wagon.

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1969 280 SEC
1982 300TD

18K will buy you a decent pagoda SL which will continue to climb in value for years. 25K will buy a really nice Pagoda or 190SL if your a good shopper. Im not sure that I would want to sink that kind of money in a car that would likely continue to go down in value.

I dissagree with you regarding the 123 restoration. Even your 18K 123 in great original conditions by no means is a concours quality car. There are levels of restoration and dumping a car at a "restoration shop" is expensive and wasteful especially for a 123. 123's are simple enough so that a $2000 car could easily be brought up to the same level of quality that the 18K car is at. There are levels of perfection and levels of restoration and most of the people who get these things done go way over the top.

I personally don't like restorations that go beyond the initial quality of the original vehicle. I dabble in the Antique markets and do a bit of collecting of fine furniture. Furniture that show's signs of being "restored" suffers an extreme loss of value. But cars that are completely remanafactured with parts that are powder coated and painted that were never that way from the factory are worth more. Interesting none the less....

the 123 wagons are really nice handling cars and their utility cannot be measured in cu ft cargo area only. just because volvo wagons have a bit more cargo area, so what? if you need to haul anything really big you have to borrow a pickup anyway?

i cant prove it with a slalom speed but i think it is possible that the 123 wagon actually will outhandle a comparable sedan. the leveling system works really well to keep it stable in evasive manueuvers. i once had to do a lane change passing maneuver in the middle of an iron truss sided bridge in my 82 because the car in front of me decided to slow down to almost nothing inside it and i didn't realize it til i was too close to stop. i had no choice and the wagon just did it. no muss no fuss and tidy as can be..... course i had to stop immediately after and change my undies.

i find the magnum an attractive mix of car and truck stying cues. with a 2.7 engine you can top 30 mpg in one, too. i will be getting one one of these days, sooner or later, i think.

tom w

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I agree with what you are saying about over-restoring these cars, I hate garage queens too. I'm not talking about concours quality, I'm just talking about a good driver, something equivalent to a well cared for newer car thats only been on the road for 2 or 3 years. You said a beat-up ($2000) 123 could be made "like new" for under $10K, and I disagree. Maybe we just don't have the same concept of "like new." A half decent paint job (not concours) would be at least $6-8K, a remanufactured long block is around $6K, a remanufactured tranny is around $2K, another $1K for differential and half shafts, maybe another $1K for suspension and steering parts, easily $2K for interior parts, about $1K for AC and climate control components, and too many $500 bits and pieces to name. I'm not suggesting that this should be actually done to a beat-up 123, but that's part of what it would take to build a "like new" car. Of course, you could throw something together for $5K with used parts and a crappy paint job, but you get what you pay for. It is always going to be cheaper to pay the market price for a car that is close to the condition that you want, than to by a cheaper one and try to upgrade the condition significantly. If you don't think a particularly model/year/condition car is worth what they are selling for, don't buy one.

Yep, original paint that is in good shape and a straight original body is worth a lot just in itself.

To take an average W123's body with a few dents and tired paint to new condition would probably require $10k if you dropped it off at a body shop.

The whole car needs to be taken down to its shell and sand blasted, of course all panals would be removed painted, and wet sanded before being put back on. When putting it back together all new trim parts and seals would need to be fitted.

Thats hundreds of hours worth of labor, thousands even if the body is in bad shape.

A true concours quality car typicaly sports a $20k-$50k paint job.

Don't kid yourself into thinking a $3k spray will look like new, give me 10 minutes with said car and I'll point out where corners were cut.

I'm not saying a $3k spray won't look good, because it will. But like new, ehh not quite.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Yeah, I have body shop quotes for about $2000 (each) to clean up a few stone chips and dings on my W123s. We are talking about damage that you can't even see from 10 feet. I don't want to think about the cost of a complete repaint.

My friend is going to spend $3k to fix a few dents, stone chips, and for a bit of new trim on his S320. Just like yours, from 10ft away the car looks fine.

I am looking to repaint my SDL at some point and have been talking to a few body guys for ballparks. The body of my car is pretty good, but I bet I spend well over $5k when everything is said and done. Probably much closer to $10k by the time I get new trim and seals. Heck new door seals alone are going to be like $350.

I'll get a few written quotes when she is out of storage and post the numbers.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200