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-   -   Why Not $10,000 for a '80-'85 300TD Wagon? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/148395-why-not-%2410-000-80-85-300td-wagon.html)

rchase 04-28-2006 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
I agree with what you are saying about over-restoring these cars, I hate garage queens too. I'm not talking about concours quality, I'm just talking about a good driver, something equivalent to a well cared for newer car thats only been on the road for 2 or 3 years. You said a beat-up ($2000) 123 could be made "like new" for under $10K, and I disagree. Maybe we just don't have the same concept of "like new." A half decent paint job (not concours) would be at least $6-8K, a remanufactured long block is around $6K, a remanufactured tranny is around $2K, another $1K for differential and half shafts, maybe another $1K for suspension and steering parts, easily $2K for interior parts, about $1K for AC and climate control components, and too many $500 bits and pieces to name. I'm not suggesting that this should be actually done to a beat-up 123, but that's part of what it would take to build a "like new" car. Of course, you could throw something together for $5K with used parts and a crappy paint job, but you get what you pay for. It is always going to be cheaper to pay the market price for a car that is close to the condition that you want, than to by a cheaper one and try to upgrade the condition significantly. If you don't think a particularly model/year/condition car is worth what they are selling for, don't buy one.
Your right about the beat up car. But consider a beat up car would be a $500 car. I would probably buy a car with one or two issues and correct them. $2000 buys a rather decent 123 with issues here and there that can be corrected without spending a HUGE amount of money. Restoring a car thats one step out of a junk yard IS a waste of money!

Personally I would rather have the car that has the issues that I can correct for less money. I know the work was done to my standards and don't have to worry about it. Buying a car thats in good condition at the moment does not give you any guarantees its going to stay that way or not need some service and repair work in the future.

Craig 04-28-2006 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rchase
Your right about the beat up car. But consider a beat up car would be a $500 car. I would probably buy a car with one or two issues and correct them. $2000 buys a rather decent 123 with issues here and there that can be corrected without spending a HUGE amount of money. Restoring a car thats one step out of a junk yard IS a waste of money!
I agree with your point, but I think your prices may be off by about a factor of 2 or 3, at least for a turbo W123. At least around here, $500 will get you a non-running parts car and $2000 will get you a car with more than a few "issues here and there." From what I've seen, about $4000 is a more reasonable starting point to end up with a good driver. I'm sure that prices vary in different areas and there are exceptions to be found.

t walgamuth 04-28-2006 11:31 PM
i think craigs estimates hold around here too.

tom w

rchase 04-29-2006 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
I agree with your point, but I think your prices may be off by about a factor of 2 or 3, at least for a turbo W123. At least around here, $500 will get you a non-running parts car and $2000 will get you a car with more than a few "issues here and there." From what I've seen, about $4000 is a more reasonable starting point to end up with a good driver. I'm sure that prices vary in different areas and there are exceptions to be found.
Hmmm... I had a chance to buy two 123's for $750 once. I live in Atlanta and 123's are pretty much throw away cars here. My brothers nearly perfect 123 the dealer's asking price was $2300.

I guess in different areas where cars rust out and that demand is higher the prices climb higher.

t walgamuth 04-29-2006 06:42 AM
i agree, that is probably a big factor (rust).

tom w

MonsieurBon 05-01-2006 09:06 PM
I sent this guy an e-mail within hours of his post. No e-mail back, so I bet it sold.

$1200?!?!? Wow.

http://portland.craigslist.org/car/156246643.html

Addicted 05-01-2006 09:45 PM
yes I e-mailed him for some freinds hours afterwards as well. i couldn't believe it was going for that price in this area. I didn't get an e-mail back yet either.

rchase 05-02-2006 04:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsieurBon
I sent this guy an e-mail within hours of his post. No e-mail back, so I bet it sold.

$1200?!?!? Wow.

http://portland.craigslist.org/car/156246643.html
See those EVERY DAY here in Atlanta in most cases even cheaper than that. Lots of unwanted rust free 123's end up in the junkyard due to lack of demand. Its the same thing for Volvo 240's. The demand for these cars is in the northern states where they are appreciated more and where the rust eats the ones there. There are a lot of really nice rust free 123's in the southern states. Before I would consider paying 10K for one in "pristine" shape I would look down south and find one that does not have surface rust all over everything. 10K will fix a lot of mechanical problems and pay for a pretty nice recovered interior or some paintwork. It would also pay for a weekend in a hotel room and a one way rental car to drive down and look for a car here.

Some resources for you northern people

http://www.autotrader.com <---- Rather popular here
http://www.ajc.com <----- The Atlanta paper

Jim B. 05-02-2006 04:59 AM
The British take on the Volvo 240 wagon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rchase
I looked at MB wagons for a while and decided against buying one. To be honest most Early and late Model Volvo wagons are MUCH nicer than the Mercedes wagons. The Volvos have a much larger cargo area (no fullsized spare and strut towers taking up needed storage space) and just as comfortable and reliable. The Mercedes are cramped on the inside both cargo and passenger space wise and way overpriced.

I bought my 1988 240 Wagon for $2700 which was quite high for the car. The car belonged to the owner of an Independant Volvo shop who purchased the car from a customer of his who was the original owner. The car is in great shape and was the shop owners "baby". Its got a LOT of upgrades and is in tip top shape. I can get up 2-3 full sized Grandfather clocks in the back of the 240 (it has a 6 foot cargo space). Some other amazing things I have stuffed into the back of the wagon include a full size 3 seat Antique French sofa and a four drawer 2 door American Sideboard. I have yet to resort to using the roof rack.

For about $7500 you could get a 1998-2000 Vintage V70 wagon. In my opinion the V70's are MUCH newer and nicer than the Mercedes wagons. They are bigger more comfortable and a lot more luxurious. Fuel economy for the 5cyl engines are in the 25mpg range. For the full 10K or a little more you could even get a 2001 model V70. The 2001 is the current edition V70 and is even nicer than the 1998-2000 cars.

UC Magazine "CAR" short review of Volvo 240 wagon:

"Antique cars for antique dealers" :D :D

Jim B. 05-02-2006 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by q45denver
The Volvos may rank up there with Mercedes but I've never seen a diesel and I think they are ugly. My personal favorite is the W124 wagon.

Well I can tell you Volvo 240 diesel wagons sold well in Europe, I've seen them them there, and went to Paris and saw a relative of an English friend who had one years ago, and drove it all over Paris with carefree elan, it had dents, one BIIIIG one where it got T boned by a Porsche, she parked it on the sidewalk, wherever she felt like it, those 240 wagons look huge in Paris with all the tiny French and Italian city cars around, Paris was a perfect car to run a banger 240 diesel wagon in.

Jim B. 05-02-2006 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by q45denver
The Volvos may rank up there with Mercedes but I've never seen a diesel and I think they are ugly. My personal favorite is the W124 wagon.

Well I can tell you Volvo 240 diesel wagons sold well in Europe, I've seen them them there, and went to Paris and saw a relative of an English friend who had one years ago, and drove it all over Paris with carefree elan, it had dents, one BIIIIG one where it got T boned by a Porsche, she parked it on the sidewalk, wherever she felt like it, those 240 wagons look huge in Paris with all the tiny French and Italian city cars around, Paris was a perfect car to run a banger 240 diesel wagon in.

Jim B. 05-02-2006 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by q45denver
The Volvos may rank up there with Mercedes but I've never seen a diesel and I think they are ugly. My personal favorite is the W124 wagon.

Well I can tell you Volvo 240 diesel wagons sold well in Europe, I've seen them them there, and went to Paris and saw a relative of an English friend who had one years ago, and drove it all over Paris with carefree elan, it had dents, one BIIIIG one where it got T boned by a Porsche, she parked it on the sidewalk, wherever she felt like it, those 240 wagons look huge in Paris with all the tiny French and Italian city cars around, Paris was a perfect car to run a banger 240 diesel wagon in.

Jim B. 05-02-2006 05:53 AM
Diesels in Europe
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by q45denver
The Volvos may rank up there with Mercedes but I've never seen a diesel and I think they are ugly. My personal favorite is the W124 wagon.

Well I can tell you Volvo 240 diesel wagons sold well in Europe, I've seen them them there, and went to Paris and saw a relative of an English friend who had one years ago, and drove it all over Paris with carefree elan, it had dents, one BIIIIG one where it got T boned by a Porsche, she parked it on the sidewalk, wherever she felt like it, those 240 wagons look huge in Paris with all the tiny French and Italian city cars around, Paris was a perfect car to run a banger 240 diesel wagon in.

MonsieurBon 05-02-2006 05:28 PM
You can say that again.

rchase 05-04-2006 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim B.
UC Magazine "CAR" short review of Volvo 240 wagon:

"Antique cars for antique dealers" :D :D
Heh heh,

Yeah they got it right. My 240 is built like a TANK and can haul virtually anything. I have transported 4 grandfather clocks at the same time and have squeezed some AMAZING things inside the cargo area.

As for the diesels I have read some not so great things about them longevity wise. The 240's gas engine is as reliable as the OM617's engine and gets about 25mpg in the wagon.

As with the 123 the 240's elegance comes from its simplicity. Its an ancient design that still performs well.


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