Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-26-2006, 09:44 PM
80300dbenz's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 125
has anyone heard of an ignitor?

i have a 1980 300D and hav trouble starting it after a couple of years. I heard about an ignitor in some cars. does this car have an ignitor ? if it does where is it located and what effect does it have on starting it?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-26-2006, 09:46 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Blue Point, NY
Posts: 25,396
It has a set of five glow plugs.

If one or more than one glow plug has failed, you'll definitely have trouble starting it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-26-2006, 09:47 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,306
Have you checked to make sure all 5 glow plugs are working?
Have you adjusted the valves?
Check the timing?
Have you had the injector pop pressure and spray pattern tested?
Is the starter strong?
How are the grounds?
Is the battery in good shape and the right one?

Does your car have a block heater and do you use it?
When its real cold synthetic oil cranks over a lot faster then dino.

If the answer is yes to all the above time for a compression and leak down test.

If in proper tune starting is a non issue.
__________________
2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ
2007 Tiara 3200

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-26-2006, 11:03 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 33,980
i have an ignitor

in my gas stove, my gas water heater and my gas furnace.

none in my diesel.

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-27-2006, 09:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,182
I will expose my ignorance...
Would a spark plug in place of a GP work?
For sake of exposing my ignorance let's assume the timing can be set to 'ideal' settings.
__________________
82 300D....went to MB heaven
90 350 SDL....excercising con rods
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-27-2006, 09:59 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by voice
nope it wont work.. these engines are compression ignition not spark ignition
I do understand the compression ignition...but when they are having a hard time w/ just compression wouldn't a spark help start the burning? Similar in theory to the GPs running after startup but all the time.
__________________
82 300D....went to MB heaven
90 350 SDL....excercising con rods
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-27-2006, 11:17 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 33,980
a spark plug

will ignite diesel. my son filled my 67 jeepster with it and it ran...barely, and smoked like a fiend.

for a diesel the compression ignition works so much better.

besides how you going to provide it? install a distributor, plug wires, a coil, etc.? yikes!

just get your glow plugs working and unless you are low on compression or the valves are leaking you will run fine.

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-27-2006, 11:28 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 148
I offer the following just for learning points, to figure out your problem the steps already posted are adequate.

Realize a diesel engine works because it creates so much pressure on the fuel that the fuel explodes. A gas engine fires a spark to ignite fuel.

I think there's two problems with the spark plug. A) a glow plug is meant to warm the engine/combustion chamber to help create more pressure, not cause combustion on it's own. B) You have no way to suppy power to a spark plug.

It ain't gonna work. GP's may run after startup but that's only to add heat to the chamber, not to actually combust fuel itself.

Good luck,
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-27-2006, 11:53 AM
69 mercedes 220d
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bozeman, Montana
Posts: 417
ignitor

To add another "no"; glow plugs generate about 900 degrees Centigrade over a rather large surface area in a continuous fashion. A spark plug generates a momentary hot spot over a very small surface area. A glow plug generates enough heat to keep itself clean of carbon deposits, whereas a spark plug does not and will foul in short order.
If I remember my Dad correctly, regarding nomenclature history, "ignitor" referred to the magneto, which was used in early gasoline engines before batterie's were used to supply current to run a breaker point / coil setup, as well as current to run a starter motor.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-27-2006, 01:49 PM
rg2098's Avatar
Detailing Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 2,415
I think he is talking about the Ignitor electronic ignition unit. No possible way to use one in a diesel (no ignition system), but for a older gas engine with points it is the best $70 you can spend.
__________________
Adam Lumsden
(83) 300D
Vice-President of the MBCA International Stars Section
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-27-2006, 08:30 PM
Geezer
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Holland, MI
Posts: 1,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill()C
A) a glow plug is meant to warm the engine/combustion chamber to help create more pressure, not cause combustion on it's own...
Glow Plugs do not create more pressure.

In M-B indirect ingnition engines (616, 617, 6022, 623, etc.) fuel is injected into a pre-combustion chamber. Heat from compression raises the air temperature above ignition temperature of the fuel, which begins to burn as soon as it is injected.

Glow Plugs are used to heat this pre-chamber before starting, when the metal is cold and absorbs some of this compression heat. A lot of cranking on a cold engine will eventually make enough heat from compression to raise the pre-chamber to the proper temperature, but the Glow Plugs make it much faster.

Quote:
B) You have no way to suppy power to a spark plug.
Actually you can put the 12 volt GP lead on a spark plug, but you won't get a spark...

Spark plugs need to have 15,000 volts applied across the gap, or they don't spark.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-28-2006, 05:10 AM
Diesel Giant's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Loganville/Atlanta
Posts: 2,156
Ignitior is a component on a distributor in a spark equiped car, ie gas powered.

I hate spark plugs.
__________________
1981 300D 147k
1998 VW Jetta Tdi 320k
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 141k
1979 300D 234k (sold)
1984 300D "Astor" 262k(sold)
Mercedes How-To and Repair Pictorials
I love the smell of diesel smoke in my hair
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page