Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 04-14-2006, 12:24 AM
Addicted's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 429
Just to help clarify as I don't want to jab any more fun into this argument than I already did. There are absolutely no modifications needed for bio-diesel. Even the stock lines from pre 96 cars will hold up for a darn long time.

__________________
76 300D 130K "Stella" (Sold )
74 240D 299K (Donated to Highschool For Senior Project WVO)
83 300TDT 290K (My one and only)
Sanford, NC
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 04-14-2006, 12:25 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by rchase
Actually I have researched biodiesel and have concluded its really not worth it for me. In your cost per gallon figure you quoted how much did you calculate for the labor costs to source, collect, transport and make the fuel? Did you also include the costs for all the equipment and changes that you may have had to do to your vehicle?

Its cheaper for me in the long run to spend time at the office making money rather than spending time in my back yard trying to make fuel. I think biodiesel is great for people who have a lot of time on their hands and enjoy tinkering. Its also great for those people who want to "save the world" with the lower emissions output of biodiesel fuel. Neither of those scenerios really describe me.

Additionally I have a great deal of respect for my vehicles and am not really comfortable experimenting with them.

I had a 2003 Chevy 3/4 ton, 6 litre, gas. I would have to fill it every 4 days at a cost of $100 tank (I'm in Canada). That is 91 tanks a year or, $9,125 per year. I would have to earn that money and then pay tax on it at %50. That fuel costs me $13,687 per year. I sold the moneypit and bought a diesel Mitsubishi truck that I run on WVO. I need diesel about 4 times PER YEAR!. At $50 a tank (small tank) I spend $200 a year on fuel. I still do everything I need to with the truck, snow plow, trips to the garbage dump etc. Just now with the money I save I can afford a cottage.

Have fun at the office.

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 04-14-2006, 12:27 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 783
Hmmm,

There are no modifications? Why are you putting installing a heater into your tank then? I am aware of the differences of WVO and Biodiesel but honestly consider them the same thing. External heated tanks and fuel switch valves and having to replace the rubber fuel lines are all non factory modifications that have to be performed on vehicles that run that type of fuel. Even vehicles that run straight biodiesel eventually have to have their fuel hoses replaced. Last time I checked replacing factory parts (rubber fuel hoses) with non factory parts (synthetic fuel hoses) is considered a modification.

As for the lazy comment have you ever heard the term "time is money". Its true for a number of people in this world. Additionally not all of us have the ability or desire for that matter to set up a chemical refining plant in our back yard. Some people live in Apartments or have Neighborhood Associations that would not permit such activities. Its good that you have those resources and consider your time to be "free" but everyone's situation is different. I would rather spend time with my family and friends in my time off from work and pay a little extra on my fuel costs. Not everyone considers their time to be free so that $.70 a gallon figure might change a bit depending on who is doing the math. Just for the sake of argument why don't you calculate it again and keep track of your time and use the $5.15 minimum wage to see what biodiesel "really" costs. It would be interesting to see the real numbers.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 04-14-2006, 12:36 AM
kmaysob's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mesa az
Posts: 1,673
if diesel hits 3.50 a gallon im parkin the benz and buying my bike sooner than planned.
__________________
have no worries.....President Obama swears "If you like your gun, you can keep it
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 04-14-2006, 01:48 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 783
Have to agree

Yeah I have to agree there. Unfortunatly a 30 mile trip to the office using a bike on a superhighway might be a bit stressful.

The thing I really don't understand is how the oil industry is so brazen to do this to people. With the Congressional hearings into their record profits recently they are just asking to get slapped with some kind of regulation. While China is using more oil and affecting the global demand you can't continue to benefit from government hand outs while sticking it to the taxpayers. I think that the oil companies need to seriously look at their business models and pricing before the government does it for them.

While I am the first one to say its not a crime to make a profit perhaps it is a crime to be accepting corperate welfare from the government and making your biggest profits ever. Hopefully at the very least the goverment will stop handing over our tax dollars to these greedy bastards and make them pay taxes like the rest of us.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 04-14-2006, 02:29 AM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by rchase
As for the lazy comment have you ever heard the term "time is money". Its true for a number of people in this world. Additionally not all of us have the ability or desire for that matter to set up a chemical refining plant in our back yard. Some people live in Apartments or have Neighborhood Associations that would not permit such activities. Its good that you have those resources and consider your time to be "free" but everyone's situation is different. I would rather spend time with my family and friends in my time off from work and pay a little extra on my fuel costs. Not everyone considers their time to be free so that $.70 a gallon figure might change a bit depending on who is doing the math. Just for the sake of argument why don't you calculate it again and keep track of your time and use the $5.15 minimum wage to see what biodiesel "really" costs. It would be interesting to see the real numbers.
Whoa there Hoss. You want to pay someone $5.15 to make fuel for you? I'd be afraid to trust the quality of the product. Someone can get $11 an hour here delivering newspapers. Also figure in your space and all that. For instance, if I were to do it in my garage, I have to figure that I am going to have to build a standard sized garage plus several feet of space more for workroom and equipment. Every two feet extension used to be a couple thousand dollars and you probably need 4 -6 feet extra for a comfortable work environment.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 04-14-2006, 02:30 AM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Supposedly this is where the money goes to.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 04-14-2006, 03:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 783
5.15

Exactly. My 5.15 figure was our current minimum wage. It would be interesting just to see what the .70 figure increased to if "any" labor had to be considered into the calculation.s
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 04-14-2006, 04:11 AM
Craig
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
You know guys, I think BD is a great concept and I look forward to being able to buy it at the pump at every highway exit. However, making your own BD is just never going to appeal to a very large portion of the US public. Everyone understands that you can save a few $1000 per year, but to most folks it just isn't worth the effort.

I could also grow my own vegetables, sew my own clothes, churn my own butter, etc. and figure out how much I'm going to save per year; but it's not going to happen. There was a time when most people had more time than money, but the reverse seems to be true today. Americans spend a huge amount of money to save a little time every day. I could make myself a pot of coffee in the morning for (maybe) $0.50 and put it in a thermos, or I could visit the local Starbucks 2 or 3 times per day for a $3 cup of coffee. Guess what I'm going to do on the average day?

I drive about 35K miles per year, so I would guess I'm spending around $4000 per year on fuel. That's about $11 per day. I can probably think of a dozen ways to save $11 per day that do not involve processing chemicals in my garage.

I appreciate what you guys are trying to do, but you have to understand that it's not for everyone. Everybody has a different set of priorities and responsibilities. Personally, I spend about 1/3 of my time out of town, and have more commitments at home than I care to count. I also have a family who expect some of my time and attention. I do enjoy working on my cars in my "spare" time, but I have no interest in messing with fuel. In addition, most of my fill-ups take place far from home.

I'm glad some of you are making this work for you, but you are definitely on the fringe. BD is not going to make a dent until it becomes mainstream, that means I need to be able to get off a random highway exit and have a good chance of finding a BD pump that is at least close to the cost of petro-diesel. If I need to plan my trip around the location of fuel, it's just more trouble than it's worth. Homemade BD is never going to put a significant dent in the market. For one thing, only a very small portion of the population will be willing to do it. More importantly, if/when commercial BD gets going for real the sources of free oil will quickly disappear. At some point the tax man will also figure out how to get his piece of the pie. On course, all this may happen faster if the price of petro-diesel keeps going up. My guess is 5 to 10 years. Just my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 04-14-2006, 06:47 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,579
Biodiesel cheaper than D2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
You know guys, I think BD is a great concept and I look forward to being able to buy it at the pump at every highway exit.
I drive about 35K miles per year, so I would guess I'm spending around $4000 per year on fuel. That's about $11 per day. I can probably think of a dozen ways to save $11 per day that do not involve processing chemicals in my garage.
Yep. Thats exactly right. We came to same conclusion that it was not really that economical after all to make our own. You need a really awesome processor and a pretty dedicated facility and a lot of time. It is a fun hobby and a great way to get introduced to chemistry and science. I think when my kids get older I will start doing it with them purely for the educational benefit. I mean there are worse things to do than sit outside the garage and make biodiesel with friends and family.

Anyway, so giving up on the processor for now, we buy our bio from the distributor. They only deliver 1000 gallon minimum but you can go up with drums and they will fill them up. But better is to get some people together with big containers at a good place and have it delivered. Some of us started a "coop" and got 4 -250 gallon chemical totes. Yesterday, we had 1000 gallons of B99 (99% Biodiesel , 1% LSD) delivered for 2.40 / gallon. A member has a forklift we will use to load one on a trailer so i can take it home. We will probably save $100-$200 this summer alone on fuel (pays for pump and containers ) And its pretty convenient having our own filling station under the carport. The time and hassle we will save on stops at pumps is significant too.
Mainly though, its better fuel for the environment and economy and cars. There is a very noticable difference in my 617 and TDI. Its feels like you just did a synthetic oil change after 20,000 miles on regular old motor oil. HUGE difference.

So the point is, for a little hassle, you can use bio now cheaper than D2 and your cars will thank you.
__________________
What Would Rudolph Do?
1975 300D, 1975 240D, 1985 300SD, 1997 300D, 2005 E320 , 2006 Toyota Prius
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 04-14-2006, 08:05 AM
Parrot of Doom's Avatar
1997 W210 E300TD 243,000
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 983
You lot have it lucky. A litre of diesel costs about 0.95 here, thats about 4.50 or so an imperial gallon.

About $8-$9 dollars a gallon then, or thereabouts.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 04-14-2006, 08:41 AM
Diesel Giant's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Loganville/Atlanta
Posts: 2,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
You know guys, I think BD is a great concept and I look forward to being able to buy it at the pump at every highway exit. However, making your own BD is just never going to appeal to a very large portion of the US public. Everyone understands that you can save a few $1000 per year, but to most folks it just isn't worth the effort.

I could also grow my own vegetables, sew my own clothes, churn my own butter, etc. and figure out how much I'm going to save per year; but it's not going to happen. There was a time when most people had more time than money, but the reverse seems to be true today. Americans spend a huge amount of money to save a little time every day. I could make myself a pot of coffee in the morning for (maybe) $0.50 and put it in a thermos, or I could visit the local Starbucks 2 or 3 times per day for a $3 cup of coffee. Guess what I'm going to do on the average day?

I drive about 35K miles per year, so I would guess I'm spending around $4000 per year on fuel. That's about $11 per day. I can probably think of a dozen ways to save $11 per day that do not involve processing chemicals in my garage.

I appreciate what you guys are trying to do, but you have to understand that it's not for everyone. Everybody has a different set of priorities and responsibilities. Personally, I spend about 1/3 of my time out of town, and have more commitments at home than I care to count. I also have a family who expect some of my time and attention. I do enjoy working on my cars in my "spare" time, but I have no interest in messing with fuel. In addition, most of my fill-ups take place far from home.

I'm glad some of you are making this work for you, but you are definitely on the fringe. BD is not going to make a dent until it becomes mainstream, that means I need to be able to get off a random highway exit and have a good chance of finding a BD pump that is at least close to the cost of petro-diesel. If I need to plan my trip around the location of fuel, it's just more trouble than it's worth. Homemade BD is never going to put a significant dent in the market. For one thing, only a very small portion of the population will be willing to do it. More importantly, if/when commercial BD gets going for real the sources of free oil will quickly disappear. At some point the tax man will also figure out how to get his piece of the pie. On course, all this may happen faster if the price of petro-diesel keeps going up. My guess is 5 to 10 years. Just my opinion.
I agree with you! I think that saving $$ is great but I dont want the hastle of schleeping around looking for oil or blowing up my house with methanol. The are lots of ways to save dinero to more than pay for the increase in fuel.
__________________
1981 300D 147k
1998 VW Jetta Tdi 320k
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 141k
1979 300D 234k (sold)
1984 300D "Astor" 262k(sold)
Mercedes How-To and Repair Pictorials
I love the smell of diesel smoke in my hair
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 04-14-2006, 09:33 AM
Craig
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by biopete
Anyway, so giving up on the processor for now, we buy our bio from the distributor. They only deliver 1000 gallon minimum but you can go up with drums and they will fill them up. But better is to get some people together with big containers at a good place and have it delivered. Some of us started a "coop" and got 4 -250 gallon chemical totes. Yesterday, we had 1000 gallons of B99 (99% Biodiesel , 1% LSD) delivered for 2.40 / gallon. A member has a forklift we will use to load one on a trailer so i can take it home. We will probably save $100-$200 this summer alone on fuel (pays for pump and containers ) And its pretty convenient having our own filling station under the carport. The time and hassle we will save on stops at pumps is significant too.
That sounds like a very good deal to me, the only problem is you have to be "based" at home to fill up. Those of us who travel a lot will still need to see BD readily available on the road. I think it will happen, it will just take some time. BTW, do you have to pay road taxes to the distributor in your state?
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 04-14-2006, 10:04 AM
Registered Diesel Burner
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 2,911
Where I live in the deep suburbs, I like to watch what I fondly call the "Redneck Economic Indicators". Basically, you watch chimneys for firewood smoke, back yards for the size of gardens, and the front yards for the car sales.

During economic stress, you see more firewood smoke in the winter, larger gardens in the summer and the cars start popping up by the road with FOR SALE in the window.

At the moment, the REI is showing a lot of large trucks and SUVs by the road for sale.......... Like a long-bed crew cab dually, and more like that.

If you need a used full-size truck, this summer is going to be great buying.

Ken300D
__________________
--------------------------
1982 300D at 351K miles
1984 300SD at 217K miles
1987 300D at 370K miles
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 04-14-2006, 10:31 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milford, DE
Posts: 1,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken300D
If you need a used full-size truck, this summer is going to be great buying...Ken300D
I've also noticed this trend and it has also seems to have effected the value of V8 powered E-class cars. Seems like you can get a 98-99 E430 with 75K miles for 14-16K on E-bay - that is a lot of car for the money.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page