Made in India rebuilt fuel injectors - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Panzermann · #1 04-12-2006, 02:37 PM

So, I pulled my injectors and had 'em tested, and a spare set as well that I had tested, and got a total of 4/10 that were good. So I get a quote of about $77 per to rebuild and instead sent away to my "supplier" who sends me a Bosch rebuilt injector from, you guessed it, the Indian subcontinent.

Now, normally this would not phase me, but I read endless posts decrying the value of Indian injectors, with der Gurkhamann (the German form of the word) valiantly fighting a rearguard action, pointing out that all 10 billion residents of the Republic of India (Homo sapiens and the rest) use locally rebuilt injectors in their 616 and 617 engines and routinely put 10 million miles on their engines going uphill in the Himalayas at -40 degree temperatures transporting lead bricks without even changing the oil.

Ok, my single, $38 Indian injector was sitting in front of me, calling me, enticing me

"put me in your car." I fought back the urge, with feelings like, "My mother warned me about these" and instead had my own injector rebuilt locally. But I still cannot entirely say no to this rebuilt Indian injector sitting in front of me. But I know what's going through your head: you've been warned....

So here is my question:
(1) IS there any way to test the injector to determine its liklihood of failure/its performance? The locally rebuilt injectors cost a fair penny, about 2x what the Bosch/India injector would cost me. (Please don't add the sarcastic response "Well, what would a new 617 turbo engine cost you?") Testing cost $7 per injector. Could I have it tested to make sure it meets specification? If it fails, I could prbably get the supplier to eat the testing cost and give me another to try.
(2) If this (or ANY) injector is going to fail, would I expect it to fail out of the box (which would be caught by testing locally, presumably), or after usage (for which testing would be a waste of time)?
(3) If it does fail, how does it fail? I've read the catastrophe/doomsday scenarios. Everyone points at the injector, but an injector does not a car make (i.e. lots of other things could fail catastrophically). I know people's general opinion, but I want to know why, specifically, do these injectors have problems (or at least their reputation for problems) and can they be mitigated, such that their cost advantage can come into play?

michael cole · #2 04-12-2006, 03:24 PM

i dont think any conclusive evidence has been provided on this forum to support any of the arguments pro or con about the use of bosch nozzles from india.i do know this i have used bosch products for years and they set the standard world wide for fuel injection.regardless of where they choose to manufacture

dannym · #3 04-12-2006, 03:28 PM

I think that what has been proven is that over time the spray pattern wears out.
I don't see how this can be observed by testing a new injector.
You said you read "endless posts". What was ssaid by people who have used them?

And those cars in India....they may be running but that doesn't mean they run good.

DAnny

#4 04-12-2006, 03:50 PM

Personally, I would install it and see how the car runs. If it's an improvement with a smooth idle and no significant injector nailing, just drive it. It's got to be better than the known bad ones, and is probably better than the "good" ones you are keeping. I'm sure it's better than a couple of mine.

Panzermann · #5 04-12-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael cole

i dont think any conclusive evidence has been provided on this forum to support any of the arguments pro or con about the use of bosch nozzles from india.i do know this i have used bosch products for years and they set the standard world wide for fuel injection.regardless of where they choose to manufacture

this thread
nozzles

Diesel Giant · #6 04-12-2006, 06:41 PM

If you install them you will probably be removing them sometime later. They may work for a while. But my friend with a shop tore down a 240d engine with 1200 miles on the Bosch "rebuilt" injectors and 2 of them decided to do the fire hose thing. Yes you guessed it melted a hole in 2 pistons. One engine to the wrecking yard.

Get some Bosio nozzles and be done with it. They will make a big difference on the running of the car.

http://dieselgiant.com/mercedesinjectornozzlereplace.htm

I put a video at the end of the pictorial so you could see how well the 84 ran with them in.

Rich300TDMBZ · #7 04-12-2006, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannym

I think that what has been proven is that over time the spray pattern wears out.
I don't see how this can be observed by testing a new injector.
You said you read "endless posts". What was ssaid by people who have used them?

And those cars in India....they may be running but that doesn't mean they run good.

DAnny

The important thing is how will these injectors work in your engine. Have you seen the diesel cars in India? They smoke like crazy, and rattle really loud. Also, they use a different kind of diesel fuel. The cost of working on cars there is also very low compare to the US, and they can fix things cheaply. Personally, I will go with the more expensive injectors.

Kebowers · #8 04-12-2006, 08:22 PM

The quality of the injector spray pattern and its open/close precision ARE THE KEY ingrediants to long diesel engine life and fuel economy. NOTHING will make up for a deficient injector. NOTHING.

Injector performance is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT for a diesel than a gasoline engine. The diesel injector must spray the proper pattern throughout the entire fuel delivery cycle -which is when the fuel is burning. The timely start of burning is vital to power and fuel economy and a faulty spray pattern will cause delay in that ignition, with a build-up of unburned fuel and resulting 'bang' when it finally lights off. A diesel 'burns' while the fuel is being sprayed into the engine

(unlike a gasoline engine where the fuel is vaporized in the intake valve pocket before getting to the combustion chamber and ignited by a spark long after fuel delivery is finished)

Injectors are the wrong place to economize. Buy the best available, use high quality fuel and good fuel filters.

Hatterasguy · #9 04-12-2006, 11:58 PM

5 out of 6 of my India made Bosch injectors were pissing after a year.

I have about a year on my second set and probably will yank them in a month and see what they are up to.

More likely then not a new set of those Italian nozzels are in my future.

73MB280SEL · #10 04-13-2006, 07:31 PM

Howdy,

I just put Bosch rebuilt injectors in my 190d 2.2 this weekend with India nozzles. While they were balanced (I have an injector tester and was able to verify the opening pressure), the spray pattern wasn't so good at low pressure. There is no doubt that there is more idle injector nailing--although that makes it sound like a Diesel

Once I get off idle, they work fine. Nevertheless, I will probably have the original injectors cleaned and balanced even though they have 200K+ on them and reinstall them.

Bottom line: If you need new injectors, install them but you would be better off to check the ones that are in there first for spray pattern and just rebalance them.

Sholin

Diesel Giant · #11 04-13-2006, 08:00 PM

As has been said many times, spray pattern and quality is really the key!

DieselAddict · #12 04-13-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel Giant

If you install them you will probably be removing them sometime later. They may work for a while. But my friend with a shop tore down a 240d engine with 1200 miles on the Bosch "rebuilt" injectors and 2 of them decided to do the fire hose thing. Yes you guessed it melted a hole in 2 pistons. One engine to the wrecking yard.

Get some Bosio nozzles and be done with it. They will make a big difference on the running of the car.

http://dieselgiant.com/mercedesinjectornozzlereplace.htm

I put a video at the end of the pictorial so you could see how well the 84 ran with them in.

Unless you have more data, the fire hose thing might have as well been caused by dirt or carbon clogging the injector nozzles. One of my old German nozzles decided to do that on me too in my old 300D and the symptom was pinging while cruising, especially when cold but even with the engine warmed up. I replaced all the nozzles with Indian ones and the car ran fine afterward, but I sold it a few thousand miles later.

In my 240D I have 2 old German nozzles, 1 new French one and 1 new Indian one. I don't recall exactly how many miles I have on the new ones, but I think it's a few thousand and so far so good. Unless a nozzle partially melts or has rough passages inside to begin with I don't see how it could be blamed for getting clogged. While these Indian nozzles certainly have some quality issues, I think they are blown out of proportion and it's essential to pop test all nozzles prior to installation regardless of where they're made.

Diesel Giant · #13 04-13-2006, 08:04 PM

I do have data. The injectors were tested by my friend who was tearing down the motor and they were streaming.

DieselAddict · #14 04-13-2006, 08:07 PM

I know, but it's only 2 nozzles. That's not the same as hundreds or thousands of nozzles exhibiting the same behavior.

Diesel Giant · #15 04-13-2006, 08:12 PM

Your missing the point. The 2 defective nozzles melted 2 of the pistons. Of course they dont all do that, but there are lots of unhappy customers with them, so buyer beware.

They have a bad reputation that is well deserved. Its not only on the Mercedes side either.....