240D: is this a good resto project candidate?
 

So there's this 4-speed '81 240D for sale locally that I looked at today.

I'm thinking about getting it as a small restoration project. The intention is mostly to learn how to do body work and mechanical jobs somewhat more complicated than a break job. Plus of course I love those old clunker W123diesels so it would be nice to end up with a pristine example in the end.

What I'd like to get here is some help with is figuring out if the stuff that's not right with it is doable for a rookie mechanic that I am.

The car allegedly has 130Kmi on it. That and the owner being a nice honest guy are two things that really go for it.

But there's very little evidence that the milage is actual. Carfax records only go back to 2001 when the current owner got it (at 117Kmi), and it's listed as a Florida "dealer vehicle" before that. Looks like it was a Florida car and it shows (see below). Pedals are not worn. Blow-by, at least according to descriptions I've found of how it should be, is normal. Just a steady stream of slightly smoky air coming out, something like a hairdryer on "medium" or "low" setting.

There are quite a few things that's been fixed by the current owner and the car seems to be in a very good running condition. Power steering works well, tires are close to new, tracks straight, stops well, etc.


So now to the bad part, where I need some help assessing the damage in terms of how hard it is to DIY fix.

- Tweaked driver side rear quater panel and the side of the rear bumper. It's been in a light accident and the panel will have to be replaced. The bumper didn't suffer much damage, just needs the plastic side replaced. Looks like this will have to be cut and a new panel welded in.

- Dash is pretty ugly - cracked in multiple places (which makes me believe it was a Florida car).

- Weather stripping on all glass is quite rotten, will definitely need to be replaced

- AC doesn't work, there's a leak somewhere. Compressor is good though.

- Driver's door is slighly kinked, looks like it got slammed into a pole by the wind when opened. Will probably straighten out with a rubber hammer

- Passenger side door lock is crooked - the stalk that is supposed to go up and down the upper part of the door is missing and it doesn't lock with the key

- Some trim pieces are a tad ugly - for example, the trim around center sill on the driver's door is worn out from people getting in and out of the car

- Temp sender is disconnected/not working

- It will probably need valve adjustment, nobody knows when it had one (if at all) last time


Other than that the car drives really nice, shifter works surprisingly well, clutch has been recently replaced.


Asking price is $1500, but I can probably get it for less. It's been sitting outside, next to the water and in the rain for 3 months and doesn't look very presentable, although it's obvious that all it needs is a good wash to look pristine (except for the quarter panel, of course).


So, is it a good resto project candidate?

It sounds like not that much is wrong with it. Some of the things you mentioned seem to indicate you're the perfectionist type, like the trim around the door. Sounds like the dash and that panel might be the worst things, so if you're willing to do that I would go for it. The price you're talking about sounds very good. If you fixed a couple of these things you could turn around and sell it for more if you want. The A/C might be a pain but a lot of people are just willing to accept A/C that doesn't work. The valve adjustment you mentioned isn't a major job. I'm sure you can find plenty of info. on how to fix the temp. sensor.

The key thing to me in your post is that you said you love these cars, which I take as an indication that you won't get terribly frustrated every time something goes slightly wrong. And they are fairly rookie mechanic-friendly, as I'm finding out.

There's lots of info. on this forum that will help you out when you experience problems. So I say buy the car and we'll see you around. Good luck.

Hi Ralph,
Thanks for your encouragment. I was a bit bummed by what to offer, the quater panel repar would be well over $1K if done in a shop. But then again, it's a pretty clean and mechanically sound car otherwise.

I'll call tomorrow morning and get it if it didn't sell while I was pondering it.

Would think that if you are willing to drill out all the spot welds on the quarter and hang a new used one on there it might be a reasonable cost repair. Should be able to locate that panel at an auto wreckers or other source pretty easily and cheap. You could then take the car somewhere to have the quarter panel welded to the car or perhaps you have a friend with a little mig welder if you do not own one yourself. For the dint on the door the same approach may be desirable. You will find that you may need a door stretcher as just to drive a large dent out of a door panel is sometimes not enough. It might spring back or create a large mess. There is really no space for the metal as the actual edges of the door may have been pulled in a little. Or shrinkage of the metal is possible. But again you should be able to locate a used door cheaply enough. If you are going to try to reduce the price of the car in negotiation remember to have some ideal of the retail cost of these repairs in mind to use as a negotiating tool. Perhaps the price of the car reflects this damage already. Depends on the car. Anyways the best in what you decide to do.

What about rust?

Rust is evil. It destroys the most complex curves in metal, curves that are practically impossible to recreate without long years of experience and some pretty expensive equipment. Rust makes parts difficult to impossible to seperate normally, and it will destroy the attachment mechanisms along with the pieces.

Rust never stops growing.

Think of black mold in a house. When it finally shows on the outer surface of a wall all of the drywall and often most of the framework and support structure will need to be replaced to get rid of it. There have been cases in which cast iron clawfoot bathtubs have broken through the floor upon which they sit to fall to the floor below.

Rust in a car is as black mold in a house.

Rust goes a long way. When you can see a little of it you should assume that there is much more of it that you can't see.

I hate rust. So should you.

hey, we all hate rust.

but the car sounds pretty good for the price or perhaps for a little less. before thinking of replacing that rear quarter i would try to straighten it. replacing them is a job for experts imho. pounding it out and filling the low spots isnt too hard.

the blowby is a bit much but using proper oil and changing it every 3k may bring some of that out.

a 240 stick is the ultimate beginner mb. durable easy to work on and simple. not much to go wrong, but it has all the structure and fine handling of the expensive benzes.

good luck

tom w

Tom, I really do not mind doing this as often as I do.:eek: You are right again. I have not seen his quarter damage and just assumed it was pretty bad. It might indeed be minimal. Also there is a danish built aftermarket panel that goes from under the belt trim line from the rear door edge to the vicinity of the taillight for about fifty dollars at auto supply stores. I have one in my garage. Even a guy with no experience or skill can hide the seam under the chrome trim edge as was intended by the panel maker. I have to be the living proof of that.:D Thats if its not possible to repair the original quarter itself. One should not assume the worse other than then there are no suprises.:D

Personaly I would only consider a car as common as a W123 for restoration if it was a completly rust free example with a good straight body. Good body work(they key word is good) costs a lot of money. It is far cheaper to pay $1k or less to have a good rust free example shipped to you. Nothing like straight original fenders and sheet metal, it can only be original once.

It is only really worth restoring a rusty car if it is really rare and you simply cannot just buy a better example to start with.

Or you just want to learn how to do a lot of body work.

The car has no rust. Here on the West Coast it's expected, so I didn't even bring this subject :)

The quarter panel is gone for good, it's definitely not repairable. I'm a bit puzzled as to where the seams are. It's flush with that narrow strip between the rear window and the trunk for example. I'd expect and old car like that to have some sort of a visible seam there.


In other news: the guy didn't bulge on the price, he basically said if he can't get 1500 he'll just keep the car. I'm picking it up tonight.

Money-wise this is pocket change for me anyway, but if one wanted to make a buck... I bet when fuel prices jump up in the summer, if this car is repaired and converted to run biodiesel it can fetch quite a bit of cash.

We never mind then, in CT every old MB has rust unless they were stored in the winter.

I have seen old American cars apart where the seam for the rear quarter was right above the rear door. Pretty much draw a line from the top of the rear door to the top of the rear windsheild, thats about the spot, give or take a few inch's. If my memory serves me it is sealed with lead and you need to melt the lead to remove it. On W123 I have no idea where that seam would be.

If the W123 is like the W126 their are welds in the rear windsheild track. Also by removing interor bits and looking in the trunk you can probably get to all the welds.

Yeah, it seems like a pretty safe bet to me. And the biodiesel 'conversion' only involves replacing some hose (assuming the hose is original - if not you may not even have to do that, according to some) at minimal cost.

Good luck, and if you replace this panel yourself, it might be a good idea to post some pics on here...

There's one other thing I'd like to understand.

With all maintenance up to date and maybe a stash of parts that are known to fail often, will a 240D be a reasonably reliable driver in modern terms of it?

I take bus to work and the grocery store is around the corner, plus I have a race bike that is street-legal that I can whip out if I really have to go somewhere.. So maybe I'll be able to sell my current daily driver 528i.. It's a great car but miles are creeping up pretty fast and the feeling is that it will start being a money pit pretty soon.

If the car is really not tired out it should make an excellent car to go back and forth with and reliability should exceed your needs.:) The only downside and that depends a little on how good the engine condition is starting in cold weather without a block heater used. Perhaps it does not get too cold in your area though. Essentially existing compression in the engine will probably determine startability to some extent.

Actually, the seller told me he drove it all the way from Florida to Seattle. Wow.

It doesn't get cold enough in Seattle to have to worry about starting in winter as long as your glowplugs work. The w123's have a reputation for not leaving you on the side of the road, which was one reason I wanted one. It should be very reliable.