Anyone Happy about the price of Fuel??? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #31 04-22-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

Is that refinery outside madison going to be making the biodiesel to the ASTM D 6751 standard? As well as going to have it tested to make sure it meets the standard.

How are they going to handle the quality of the wvo made biodiesel since it has a higher gel/cloud point then virgin bioD in cold weather?

This is the major concern for VW and the reason why they only allow B5 mixtures. And recommend you only buy B5 if the biodiesel is made from virgin soy since wvo bioD has higher cloud/gel points.

I dont think that place will continue making it from wvo when we start having more and more issues with geling and clouding biodiesel. Once that ASTM standard is made mandatory we wont be seing wvo biodiesel from refineries.

Unless your in warm weather states i dont think wvo biodiesel will be in our future from commercial retailers.

I'm not in a warm weather state nor do I know what standard they are making it to. But, if you are going to dump millions into a factory like that, I'll bet they would have thought of it. In any case, they can still make it and ship it to warm weather states or maybe add something to make it to that standard

aklim · #32 04-22-2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagesinthewind

It would hurt for a while. Lots of people who would need to start carpooling and sharing the gas money, lots of prices going up because of high cost of shipping, many needing to get rid of low mpg cars for more economical ones.

HOPEFULLY, what higher fuel prices would do is get the US to decide to USE the railroads we built to ship things. It was what we used to do before the Teamsters took over trucking.

It would make people buy the better fuel milage cars.
Maybe the car companies would make cars with more realistic horsepower, cuz' really, WHY does a corvette need 8 cyls? Muscle cars are cool, and really fast cars are cool, but they are not a NEED. People can feel free to buy them and just drive those on the weekends, but not as daily drivers.
Maybe it would help large cities to build better public transport. NYC runs MOST of it's population around the city on the subway. There is no reason that more cities cannot do the same. The reason they have not is that people are in love with their cars and wouldn't USE public transport.

Telecommuting for those in a technology industry would become more prominent. My husband works from home one day per week already and may be able to push that to twice a week if fuel gets much higher. We live 40 miles away from Sun Microsystems, where he works. Maybe more people would do that, too.

There is a hugh downside to high fuel prices. I'm not discounting those problems. It would hit us hard. We also own a bar that is 35 miles from home and there is no telecomutting there. I'm just trying to list some of the LONG TERM (20 years from now) benefits (or HOPEFUL benefits) of higher fuel prices. Right now it would kill our economy. . .

Gotta make sure they can afford it first. What if they cannot? Carpooling is only a band aid fix. It is not always the easiest thing to do and when you cannot, well......

Rail is not really the way to do things because some places, you cannot do it. Unless you have a station outside your place, you are going to have a truck do it. Even then, rail is NOT a free service. Guess what, my rail cost also went up and the customer is balking at the prices and have cut back one shipment. So who wins?

Do muscle cars make up the bulk of the cars? How many Vettes do you see compared to other cars? NYC is one place where public transportation is advailable. However, smaller cities and you might not make it so possible. In any case, I won't live in NYC if I have to take the train. I value my safety more.

Telecomuting is not an answer either. many things cannot be done from home and there is also an issue of the worker. Not everyone is able to telecommute and get things done in a timely manner.

I'd say the benifits are there if you look thru rose colored glasses. Our economy is not as robust as you may think where it can take hit after hit and still bounce back. So, if alcohol prices also go up and people stay in and drink at home and your bar closes, I guess it sucks to be you, right? If they cut your husband down to reduce workforce, well, sucks to be him. Think of the long term benifit 20 years from now. Well, that is all find and dandy but the key question is will you be able to hibernate for 20 years.

aklim · #33 04-22-2006, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerohour3k

Precisely what I was going to say. While it would be funny to see people ditch their gas-guzzling behemoths (Such as the Excursion, those absurd Hummers, and so forth).. you have to remember, people, that our economy *depends* on oil. Anything made of plastic (which is just about everything, these days), will go up in price. Food at the grocery store will skyrocket. Imported products will have a huge increase... and if you ever feel like flying anywhere, ever again.. you'd better have a lot of money. Jet fuel costs a ton as it is.. if prices get much higher, the airline industry will all but shut down.

That aside, rising fuel prices may give the economy the "kick" it needs, to start making better fuels.. such as Ethanol and Biodiesel. Besides, this would open more farms in the country, helping OUR economy out, giving more americans jobs, while lowering costs for the entire nation. So while rising fuel prices may put hard times on people, it may spark the next step in our fuel needs.

..doubtful, though. The oil giants control the country, and are making entirely too much to let it go.

The airline industry is already in shambles and is one toe away from the grave.

Or it may just bury the entire economy into a grave so deep it will never recover. I thought ethanol wasn't a positive gain fuel in that it costs more energy to make than it gives? In any case, it WILL put hard times on people. Whether the economy can recover from that is doubtful if it goes too deep. We have a lot of people we owe money to at this point.

Zerohour3k · #34 04-22-2006, 09:23 PM

Oh! And one more thing. Since most of us drive early-model diesels.. we aren't exactly getting tip-top milage, either. So while we're getting better mpg than, say, that V8 Corvette.. we're still on the low-end, as far as MPG goes. If prices go up much higher, it will put the squeeze on just about every one of us.

Think about it. We all get 23-30mpg with the W123 / W124's. Some of the 126's get the same. For many of us, these are daily drivers. Heck, some new SUV's are getting 30-35mpg, and sedans in the 40-50 range. I live in NJ, so I get some of the cheapest fuel in the country.. and I'm paying $2.79 a gallon for diesel. To fill my tank, it's costing me almost $40.. where, a little over a year ago, it cost 25-30, tops. Let's say that fuel hits the $5 mark.. almost doubling the cost of fills. Your 26mpg diesel is no longer "economical". If you live in a cold weather state, WVO isn't an option. You're now forced to buy a new car, costing you yet more money.

My guess? By 2012, at this rate, there will be no middle class. We'll have very rich people.. and very poor people. The economy *will* crash, if fuel prices climb too high. WVO may become hard to find, when more people start using it as fuel (or companies start paying to collect it). If the prices aren't stabilized (and lowered).. our economy is headed into another depression.. and I'm sure nobody wants that.

Hatterasguy · #35 04-22-2006, 09:29 PM

A 2007 Corvette Z06 according to the window sticker gets 26mpg on the highway. That is 1.5mpg less then the best I have ever gotten out of the SDL.

The Lexus LS400H claims 24mpg highway, 31mpg city.

The Lexus is a very large SUV, that gets better mileage then my SDL.

The Corvette has 500hp+.

Both have so many cats that the exhuast emissions are insainly clean.

Both need less oil changes then my SDL.

Hmm so which is better for the environment now? And uses less oil...

Maybe I should go and buy a Lexus SUV to save money on fuel!

boneheaddoctor · #36 04-22-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

A 2007 Corvette Z06 according to the window sticker gets 26mpg on the highway. That is 1.5mpg less then the best I have ever gotten out of the SDL.

The Lexus LS400H claims 24mpg highway, 31mpg city.

The Lexus is a very large SUV, that gets better mileage then my SDL.

The Corvette has 500hp+.

Both have so many cats that the exhuast emissions are insainly clean.

Both need less oil changes then my SDL.

Hmm so which is better for the environment now? And uses less oil...

Maybe I should go and buy a Lexus SUV to save money on fuel!

all very good points.....

pawoSD · #37 04-22-2006, 09:41 PM

It'd cost way more to buy a new car than to keep my SD, with the amount I drive the overall effect on me isn't very big....I've only spent about $20 on fuel in the past 2.5 weeks....key is driving as little as possible.

I also quit my low pay job thats 11 miles each way from my house, so I save lots of fuel that way too......now I just have to find a new job close to my house....

I have a job at school but that ends soon for the summer....

I'll drive my car even if fuel is $5 a gallon, at that point I will simply drive only when absolutely necessary, or I will begin a soy farm.

Hatterasguy · #38 04-22-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

I'll drive my car even if fuel is $5 a gallon, at that point I will simply drive only when absolutely necessary, or I will begin a soy farm.

The best advice for saving money at the pump, drive less!

I re schedualed my classes next fall so I only have to drive to school 3 times a week. 26 mile round trip. This semester I am driving their 6 times a week. Still only burning $30-$35 a week, even at $3 a gallon.

deniss · #39 04-22-2006, 10:03 PM

No doubt - fuel costs affect us all, and no one is isolated from that. We are all tied to the same economy here. I absolutely think that fuel prices should be government-regulated, at least to some degree - there should be a price cap. I was living in California during the famous energy crisis around the turn of the century when Los Angeles was getting soaked for energy bills to the point where there would be drastic power shortages, outages, and insane energy bills. Government had eventually intervened, but the damage was done - and come to think of it, probably by some of the same people who are running the country now!

When I was in California in about '99 or '00 and gas prices were about to hit $2, there was a huge uproar, and Bill Clinton decided to intervene by tapping the US fuel reserve to stop prices from rising. In fact, they even dropped a bit.

The question that's on my mind: why are fuel prices inflating so quickly NOW? They could have done that years ago, but the increases were in general fairly gentle and manageable. I mean, it's unthinkable that fuel prices are up almost $1 from where they were just a month or two ago! That is unthinkable. Someone HAS to be held responsible for this. For all I know, this is business terrorism. We had a huge natural disaster (Katrina) in September of last year, and fuel prices shot up supposedly due to supply problems. And yet, the poor innocent oil companies post record profits nonetheless!

I think this administration has allowed too many of its personal interests get in the way of monitoring and maintaining the economical health of this country. It's no secret that current administration is in bed with big business and has allowed their personal interest interfere with the country's interest.

I don't know how about the rest of you, but I want to see some heads roll for this. Congress needs to launch a full-out investigation into this matter and take those oil companies to court if they have to.

I agree that alternative fuels do constitute urgent priority, but not in this manner. There's a big part of the transportation infrastructure that runs on very old equipment which is either impossible to convert to other fuels or would be too costly to do so. Changes need to be made, but at this rate the change can be lethal to the economy and those at its mercy, especially those who are barely hanging on to their "middle class" status. So, I see absolutely nothing beneficial in this fuel price hike.

We haven't even gotten to the "natural disaster season" yet...

Hatterasguy · #40 04-22-2006, 10:09 PM

No a price cap is probably about the worst thing you could do:

Macro Eco 101, you guys need to brush up!

When the cost of a good is raising, if an artificial ceiling is put into place the cost will stop raising. The market will be out of equlibrium and thus shortages will be created. These will last until either demand falls, or the ceiling is removed.

Demand will out strip supply, means gas lines!

I'd rather pay $5 to get as much fuel as I want, then sit in line for 6 hours once a week to get a few gallons at $2 or $3.

aklim · #41 04-22-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deniss

The question that's on my mind: why are fuel prices inflating so quickly NOW? They could have done that years ago, but the increases were in general fairly gentle and manageable. I mean, it's unthinkable that fuel prices are up almost $1 from where they were just a month or two ago!

How quickly are they rising up again? I didn't think it was $1 less even 2 months ago. You sure on that?

Zerohour3k · #42 04-22-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

How quickly are they rising up again? I didn't think it was $1 less even 2 months ago. You sure on that?

Not quite $1 by me, but almost. Last month I was able to buy diesel at about $2.29.. and in some places, $2.25. The cheapest I could find now, is $2.79, with the vast majority of places charging $2.84. Unless we somehow drained 50% of our oil supplies, or set fire to 5 oil fields.. what exactly warrants a ~.60 raise, within the course of a *MONTH*? Someone is making a lot of money off this, and it's the oil industry to blame.

Not that it'll ever happen, but it'd be great if the government stepped in, and forced those companies to operate at a loss for the next 5 years.. to pay their debt to society, for putting the economy in this state. In the very least, we need to have these prices regulated to a degree. A sixty-cent rise within a month's time is absurd.

aklim · #43 04-22-2006, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerohour3k

Not quite $1 by me, but almost. Last month I was able to buy diesel at about $2.29.. and in some places, $2.25. The cheapest I could find now, is $2.79, with the vast majority of places charging $2.84. Unless we somehow drained 50% of our oil supplies, or set fire to 5 oil fields.. what exactly warrants a ~.60 raise, within the course of a *MONTH*? Someone is making a lot of money off this, and it's the oil industry to blame.

Not that it'll ever happen, but it'd be great if the government stepped in, and forced those companies to operate at a loss for the next 5 years.. to pay their debt to society, for putting the economy in this state. In the very least, we need to have these prices regulated to a degree. A sixty-cent rise within a month's time is absurd.

I haven't seen such a raise. 30 cents maybe but that is that. Also ULSD might be partially to blame for it.

As of March, 21% is taxes, 5% is distributing and marketing, 22% is refining and 52% is from crude oil. That is supposedly how the dollar of gas goes.

So they won't sell here and sell elsewhere. You think that you are the only buyer? Fuel is a seller's market.

deniss · #44 04-22-2006, 11:04 PM

Well, I'll tell you where I got my "almost $1" figure. A couple months ago, I was paying $2.25 per gallon of premium. Now premium is over $3 here - something like $3.10 now or something to that effect. So the gas prices DID rise by almost $1 within the last month or two.

Diesel maybe not quite so drastically, but we're talking about "gas" prices, not just diesel.

TheDon · #45 04-23-2006, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Every good is shipped via truck so expect prices to shoot up on everything.

dont ya just love how use non commercial diesel owners have to pay the price of commercial fuel ... i say we should have 3 grades of diesel.. off road, commercial, and commuter diesel.. all dyed an appropriate color and each a different nozzle size.. big ones for the rigs.. normal for us and the off road can use what ever they want