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  #1  
Old 04-23-2006, 11:44 PM
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Bio Diesel ?

I was on a trip last week and got off I-81 in Virginia to fuel up and the pump at the station read "Bio Diesel" I filled up and proceeded to drive 400 miles before my next fill up and noticed a loss of power and when I filled up I got 4 mpg less than I normally do. after filling up with Pilot which I normally do my power returned and at the next fuel up so did my milage.
My question is this is this normal for Bio Diesel ?
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2006, 12:20 AM
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Yes, a few miles/gal is normal. Biodiesel has something like 7% less power in it than petro diesel. So I wouldn't be suprised if the lower milage was due to biodiesel, assuming MPH, in town/highway, hills/flat, etc.. were all the same.
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2006, 06:53 AM
ncof300d
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rdanz,
What blend of biodiesel did you use and what model of Merc is this?
I ran B100 in my 1985 300D and 1999 E300 from May through October of 2005. I do not remeber my exact milage, but the drop was less than 1.5mpg for both cars.
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  #4  
Old 04-24-2006, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdanz
I was on a trip last week and got off I-81 in Virginia to fuel up and the pump at the station read "Bio Diesel" I filled up and proceeded to drive 400 miles before my next fill up and noticed a loss of power and when I filled up I got 4 mpg less than I normally do. after filling up with Pilot which I normally do my power returned and at the next fuel up so did my milage.
My question is this is this normal for Bio Diesel ?
perhaps the power drop off was due to gunk in filter? 1 tank of biodiesel will clean up alot of stuff in the tank.
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  #5  
Old 04-24-2006, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt
perhaps the power drop off was due to gunk in filter? 1 tank of biodiesel will clean up alot of stuff in the tank.
But the gunk would still be in the filter affecting performance when the petro was put in so I would say it wasn't a clogged filter. But rdanz, you might take a look anyway just to see.
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  #6  
Old 04-24-2006, 12:30 PM
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That does raise some interesting questions about locally brewed biodiesel, though. Who knows the actual quality of the stuff? I know some places give better petro than others. Bio seems like it could be even more of a crap shoot.
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  #7  
Old 04-24-2006, 03:02 PM
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I typically see a 2 MPG drop in fuel economy when running pure B100. The engine also seems to be slightly down on torque, it kind of feels like the A/C is compressor is engaged.

B20 use results in no observable drop in mileage or performance.
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  #8  
Old 04-24-2006, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983/300CD
That does raise some interesting questions about locally brewed biodiesel, though. Who knows the actual quality of the stuff? I know some places give better petro than others. Bio seems like it could be even more of a crap shoot.
The place I get mine from supplied the state DOT, so I'll wager its pretty decent. Wouldnt the label of B100 have some garuntees?
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  #9  
Old 04-24-2006, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt
The place I get mine from supplied the state DOT, so I'll wager its pretty decent. Wouldnt the label of B100 have some garuntees?
You would think, but you would also think petro would come with some kind of guaranty too, but a few months ago a station here in Boise got some bad diesel and caused all kinds of ruckus here.

They only test so much of biodiesel and petro, they can't test it all. So it's possible that some bad stuff gets through.
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  #10  
Old 04-24-2006, 03:12 PM
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My vo gives me about 25 mpg vs 27 at 75mph.
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  #11  
Old 04-24-2006, 04:13 PM
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biodiesel gives fewer mpg

it has 10-12% less power than dino. the reason it is so clean emission wise is that it has all that plant oxygen in it*. this hampers power although the cetane rating is 50 vs 40 for std pump dino and 45-50 for the prem bp dino.


*from biodiesel:growing a new fuel economy-greg pahl

page 57 and i paraphrase(but not plagerize)..... On the downside, the energy content of bio d is 10-12% less than dino.(about 121k for bio d and 135K btu for dino) The oxygen allows favorable emissions but has a reduced energy content. Although there is this slight reduction it is offset by a 7% avg increase in combustio efficiency. Generally speaking the use of bio d results in 5% decrease in torque and fuel efficiency in a diesel engine. However, most people will not notice the difference in their automobiles.
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  #12  
Old 04-24-2006, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83-240D
it has 10-12% less power than dino. the reason it is so clean emission wise is that it has all that plant oxygen in it*. this hampers power although the cetane rating is 50 vs 40 for std pump dino and 45-50 for the prem bp dino.


*from biodiesel:growing a new fuel economy-greg pahl

page 57 and i paraphrase(but not plagerize)..... On the downside, the energy content of bio d is 10-12% less than dino.(about 121k for bio d and 135K btu for dino) The oxygen allows favorable emissions but has a reduced energy content. Although there is this slight reduction it is offset by a 7% avg increase in combustio efficiency. Generally speaking the use of bio d results in 5% decrease in torque and fuel efficiency in a diesel engine. However, most people will not notice the difference in their automobiles.
What does the cetane rating matter if it is lower in power and economy.

Most people will not notice it in the automobile but probably sooner or later in the wallet.
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  #13  
Old 04-24-2006, 05:07 PM
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With the passat TDI it doesnt loose a drop of power when on B100. Although it does drop in mpg (45mpg hwy) but thats better mpg then the benz anyway.

Its still peppy in the city and flys down the hwy with no hesitation. My mom actually said the only real difference was that the engine was quieter.

On our trip to LA she drove to LA on B99 and she didnt notice any differnce in power. On the way back we filled up on B99.9 and i drove the whole way back home and myself didnt notice any power loss. And ive driven it on pure diesel before. So the power is the same on these cars.

On the 300SD when i run test batches of biodiesel in it i only notice a faster idle pace. im assuming its because of the higher cetane. I never pay attention to mpg's so cant really say anything on that but i assume it less then if it was on diesel. When the SD is on diesel it seems to have a little more power but not a major differnce overall.

But the biodiesel gives the car more power in city then when on wvo.
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2006, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greasybenz
With the passat TDI it doesnt loose a drop of power when on B100. Although it does drop in mpg (45mpg hwy) but thats better mpg then the benz anyway.

On our trip to LA she drove to LA on B99 and she didnt notice any differnce in power. On the way back we filled up on B99.9 and i drove the whole way back home and myself didnt notice any power loss. And ive driven it on pure diesel before. So the power is the same on these cars.

On the 300SD when i run test batches of biodiesel in it i only notice a faster idle pace. im assuming its because of the higher cetane. I never pay attention to mpg's so cant really say anything on that but i assume it less then if it was on diesel. When the SD is on diesel it seems to have a little more power but not a major differnce overall.

But the biodiesel gives the car more power in city then when on wvo.
If it has less energy per unit, how can it not have less power? Maybe you don't notice it but the dyno might.

Without a dyno and duplicating the conditions you cannot know. People notice a difference in their car after they put a mod on via the Butt-O-Dyno.

Why would it give more power in the city or highway? How is that possible?
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  #15  
Old 04-24-2006, 05:17 PM
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Biodiesel would have to be about 10% cheaper to make itself worthwhile since it is 10% less in energy if I am reading the above posts correctly
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