Diesel purge today - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

olsaltybastard · #31 05-03-2006, 12:40 PM

I just completed the purge this morning and haven't gotten a chance to take it out on the road yet. I bought the car about 3,000 miles ago and the previous owner had both fuel filters replaced. The noodlehead that installed the spin on filter used way too much torque, so I had to use the 'ol screwdriver method. I don't know if it's from using Diesel Kleen at every fill up or the purging, but that thing had some nasty junk in it.

I agree that not many chemicals can remove baked on carbon deposits, but the varnishes are a bit easier. I don't think the purge is meant to be an end all, but rather a preventative maintenance technique.

TwitchKitty · #32 05-03-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olsaltybastard

I agree that not many chemicals can remove baked on carbon deposits, but the varnishes are a bit easier. I don't think the purge is meant to be an end all, but rather a preventative maintenance technique.

This statement shows the common sense others claim. If you use the purge regularly on an engine that runs good you might be doing something worthwhile. Once the engine is no longer running right you are wasting your money on a product like this. These forums are about selling products, they would not exist if they did not pay. I think that buying diesel purge is fine as long as you understand what it will and will not do.

As to someone who owns a 616 or 617 diesel and thinks they never had a clogged pintle hole, that is probably denial in the extreme. My guess would be that there are more clogged injectors running the streets than open injectors. I would guess that any injector with much more than 100K miles on it is probably clogged. And I know that DP or any other product like this will NOT unclog them.

I would guess that almost every used car that you might buy has clogged pintles. When you buy one of these cars, go home and adjust the valves and break down the injectors for inspection. Everything else comes next.

This is one of the areas in which people are highly uninformed and misinformed about thier diesels.

As to egos, if you read the book you would see that this is not magic or emotion or even complicated, it is easy to be sure of this. Read the book, crack open a couple injectors, look at them with magnification. Then you won't have to deal with this on an emotional level.

This is not what you want to hear, react poorly, throw money at it.

TwitchKitty · #33 05-03-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVOtoGO

This is absolute Loony-Toons.
Who cares about carbon deposits?
Who cares about pintles holes?
Who cares about varnish in the system?
Who cares about ‘scientific evidence‘?
Who cares about the MB manual on how to clean pintles?
And - Who cares if TwitchKitty is mad at the world and thinks he’s a diesel pintle god?
For God’s sake people, he wrapped it all up with the one line: “My motivation? Not sure, just hate to see people mislead into wasting their hard-earned money. Being right is no big boost for me, I'm used to it.”

Wow -Now there’s an ego! (Personal note: Please stay out of the cockpit.)

TK - Until you come up with the facts proving the stuff is a scam. Here’s the cold hard facts.
1. There are lots of people who spend their own hard-earned money on the stuff. (none of your business)
2. They put it through their fuel systems and notice a positive effect on how their engine operates. (wow-perhaps you should try it)
3. They are happy with the results and will do facts 1 and 2 again. (they post their results/happiness with the product on the forum to possibly help others)
4. There is little you or anyone can do to convince these people that whatever it was they noticed didn’t really happen. (so, sit down)
5. It does not matter one bit regarding all the scientific studies, or how carbon forms and where, or how pintles are supposed to be cleaned, varnish builds up, etc. etc. Fact 2 is all that many of the folks who have ever used the stuff care about. That’s it.

That’s all this thread was started for. (Ref. The first 5 posts.) Then came a post regarding a similar product. Cool, let’s hear about it.
Then came your post about pintle holes, snake-oil miracle cures, and service manuals. Sure - I’ll bet whatever you’d like, that a physical scrubbing of the pintles will leave them cleaner than a Purge run. I’ll bet that most of the folks who buy and use Purge are not really looking for a miracle cure that provides the same results as the manual’s procedures. I’ll bet that most of the folks that buy it, don’t think they are wasting their hard-earned money. I’ll bet that they buy and use it because they like what they see/hear/feel it does.

If you’d like to take me up on any of these bets - fine. Let’s do it.
If not - please - Get off your almighty high horse. Sit down. Can the ego. Stop insinuating that folks are wasting their money on snake oil metrical cures. And - Stop making empty statements about a product that you have (in post 11) made it clear you know nothing about.

Good stuff Karl. Please let us know your findings.

Preserved for future readers in case you sober-up or grow-up and decide to edit it.

d.delano · #34 05-03-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

I think that buying diesel purge is fine as long as you understand what it will and will not do...

As to someone who owns a 616 or 617 diesel and thinks they never had a clogged pintle hole, that is probably denial in the extreme. My guess would be that there are more clogged injectors running the streets than open injectors. I would guess that any injector with much more than 100K miles on it is probably clogged. And I know that DP or any other product like this will NOT unclog them.

I would guess that almost every used car that you might buy has clogged pintles. When you buy one of these cars, go home and adjust the valves and break down the injectors for inspection. Everything else comes next.

This is one of the areas in which people are highly uninformed and misinformed about thier diesels.

I took care of that when I first got the car by getting a set of TomJ's rebuilts where the pintle holes are ultrasonically cleaned in a sodium hydroxide bath and then balanced to within +- 2 bar of one another. So I'm going to go ahead and say that problem still does not apply to me. Even if it does, I don't feel, don't see, don't hear, and don't smell the effects of the dreaded pintle-hole cloggage. The car runs great! It does so, in part, due to regular maintenance with LM DP. If I've got pintle-hole cloggage, I don't really care since it doesn't hamper performance. But I doubt any of my holes are plugged

Nobody ever thought or said DP was going to rebuild their engine for them TK
I certainly don't believe in miracle cures, and DP so far as I can tell is not marketed as one. It's marketed as a maintenance item.

WVOtoGO · #35 05-03-2006, 02:27 PM

"If you use the purge regularly on an engine that runs good you might be doing something worthwhile."

And by "worthwhile", do you mean they may do something that they might actually notice? Gee - If you put a little more thought into this statement of yours, you may actually give yourself a lesson in the “common sense” you obviously do not have.

Probably not though - You're too busy with your own crusade. (And I'm the one needing to sober/grow up??)

As for editing my last post - Thanks for preserving it. I did go back and notice that my spell checker and I goofed on that one “miracle“. Sorry about that. I did edit it correctly. Thanks again.

WVOtoGO · #36 05-03-2006, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

As to someone who owns a 616 or 617 diesel and thinks they never had a clogged pintle hole, that is probably denial in the extreme. My guess would be that there are more clogged injectors running the streets than open injectors. I would guess that any injector with much more than 100K miles on it is probably clogged. And I know that DP or any other product like this will NOT unclog them.

I would guess that almost every used car that you might buy has clogged pintles. When you buy one of these cars, go home and adjust the valves and break down the injectors for inspection. Everything else comes next.

This is one of the areas in which people are highly uninformed and misinformed about thier diesels.

“…probably denial in the extreme”??? What???? It’s probably that they don’t have a clue what a pintle hole even is.
“…will NOT unclog them.” Fine - Who the hell said it would??
“…go home and adjust the valves and break down the injectors for inspection.” Sure - Like we all have the tools and skills to do that !! I know I do. I’m assuming you do. I know a few other members here who do. But take a poll and surprise yourself at how many wouldn’t begin to even think about doing that task.
“This is one of the areas in which people are highly uninformed and misinformed about thier (“their” by the way) diesels. Yep - I’d bet you’re right on the money there. I know I’m learning something about a car I’ve had for going on 26 years from this forum every day. And, I thank folks like you for the education. But at the same time there are plenty of folks here that don’t know about pintles being clogged and probably don’t care. They have no mechanical skills and/or the tools that would allow them to tear into their injectors, nor the desire (or funds to have a shop) to do so if they did. And why should they? If they can run a can of DP through the system and be happy with noticable results, why should they care? (d.delano just said he didn't) Why should they concern themselves with not being able to tear into their injectors like you and I can? And why should they have to listen to you make them out to be suckers buying snake oil?

Panzermann · #37 05-03-2006, 04:03 PM

...you view the purge products as snake oil, has anyone tried to use Seafoam in the same way as Lubro-Moly Diesel Purge and when were the results?

d.delano · #38 05-03-2006, 05:13 PM

mmmmm Diesel Purge....

TwitchKitty · #39 05-03-2006, 05:24 PM

Is DP or Seafoam on The Mercedes list of approved products or is that just for lubricants?

Once again, anyone can disassemble and clean 616/617 injectors, no special tools, no special training, no adjustments, costs nothing, read the book, it is all in there.

TwitchKitty · #40 05-03-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVOtoGO

“…probably denial in the extreme”??? What???? It’s probably that they don’t have a clue what a pintle hole even is.
“…will NOT unclog them.” Fine - Who the hell said it would??
“…go home and adjust the valves and break down the injectors for inspection.” Sure - Like we all have the tools and skills to do that !! I know I do. I’m assuming you do. I know a few other members here who do. But take a poll and surprise yourself at how many wouldn’t begin to even think about doing that task.
“This is one of the areas in which people are highly uninformed and misinformed about thier (“their” by the way) diesels. Yep - I’d bet you’re right on the money there. I know I’m learning something about a car I’ve had for going on 26 years from this forum every day. And, I thank folks like you for the education. But at the same time there are plenty of folks here that don’t know about pintles being clogged and probably don’t care. They have no mechanical skills and/or the tools that would allow them to tear into their injectors, nor the desire (or funds to have a shop) to do so if they did. And why should they? If they can run a can of DP through the system and be happy with noticable results, why should they care? (d.delano just said he didn't) Why should they concern themselves with not being able to tear into their injectors like you and I can? And why should they have to listen to you make them out to be suckers buying snake oil?

Once again, sounds like a personal problem to me.

If a product is presented here it is open to criticism. Not everyone is going to stand up and cheer just because you want to have a pep-rally.

TwitchKitty · #41 05-03-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

DIESEL PURGE
- cleans fuel systems
- breaks down deposits in injectors
- improves the ignition performance (cetanne number) of diesel fuel
- prevents partial-load knocking
- protects against corrosion
- guarantees optimum combustion
- increases operational reliability and ecconomy
Diesel Purge removes deposits from injectors and the pistons/combustion chamber. Eliminates engine-running problems. No more knocking under partial load -- smoother idling and softer engine running. Cleaner injectors produce optimum engine running. Cleans the whole fuel system. Protects against corrosion. Guarantees good combustion, increased economy and operational reliability. Operational area: Suitable for helping to solve problems in all Diesel engines.
Made in Germany

Here is an adverisement for DP that I randomly pulled off of the net. Wow, all of that? Really?

d.delano · #42 05-03-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Is DP or Seafoam on The Mercedes list of approved products or is that just for lubricants?

Once again, anyone can disassemble and clean 616/617 injectors, no special tools, no special training, no adjustments, costs nothing, read the book, it is all in there.

27mm socket
bench vise
breaker bar
torque wrench
brass brush
cleaner

o yea and if you want to do it right(who really wants to pull the injectors just to clean the nozzles, you know you want them to pop and hold properly) you need
shims(few people know where to get these)$??
nozzles(if current ones aren't still good)mmmm Bozios, ~$30 each
Pop Tester- anywhere from $100 to $400
+ precious time measured in hours

if you don't want to go that route, rebuild service ~$50 per injector($250 for 5)
+ precious time measured in days + the trouble of shipping/receiving

LM DP- $6 for two cans. That's a whopping $12 and 10 minutes of your time for a very quantifiable result. Not as good as a rebuild, but not as much trouble or expense either. Good for when you want to try and clear up a little bit of light nailing/smoking or restore a bit of lost power. Not an engine rebuild-in-a-bottle as you contend that everyone thinks it is. We keep trying to tell you that we know what it's for but you won't get it.

TK- you'd make a piss poor trial lawyer, but maybe that's not such a bad thing

BTW- If the MB list came right out and said 'Hey do not do such-and-such or don't use such-and-such product' then it would mean something. Sure it's not on the list as of the last time you checked, but it's a German product after all, and I'll bet you it gets used quite liberally over there.

olsaltybastard · #43 05-03-2006, 06:25 PM

Well, I drove the car to work today. I didn't notice anything different after the purge. Maybe I'll get an extra mpg or two; who knows? The car was running pretty smooth to begin with, as I have been using copious amounts of Diesel Kleen in every fillup since owning it. The car has just over 125,000 miles on it and runs pretty strong, so I don't have any immediate plans to clean the injectors. When you all speak of the pintle hole, are you talking about the hole that the injector nozzle pin sits in (I've heard of a pintle but not a pintle hole.)

WVOtoGO · #44 05-03-2006, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.delano

27mm socket
bench vise
breaker bar
torque wrench
brass brush
cleaner

o yea and if you want to do it right(who really wants to pull the injectors just to clean the nozzles, you know you want them to pop and hold properly) you need
shims(few people know where to get these)$??
nozzles(if current ones aren't still good)mmmm Bozios, ~$30 each
Pop Tester- anywhere from $100 to $400
+ precious time measured in hours

if you don't want to go that route, rebuild service ~$50 per injector($250 for 5)
+ precious time measured in days + the trouble of shipping/receiving

LM DP- $6 for two cans. That's a whopping $12 and 10 minutes of your time for a very quantifiable result. Not as good as a rebuild, but not as much trouble or expense either. Good for when you want to try and clear up a little bit of light nailing/smoking or restore a bit of lost power. Not an engine rebuild-in-a-bottle as you contend that everyone thinks it is. We keep trying to tell you that we know what it's for but you won't get it.

TK- you'd make a piss poor trial lawyer, but maybe that's not such a bad thing

BTW- If the MB list came right out and said 'Hey do not do such-and-such or don't use such-and-such product' then it would mean something. Sure it's not on the list as of the last time you checked, but it's a German product after all, and I'll bet you it gets used quite liberally over there.

Now there's a much more civil way of stating what I was just about to.

I'm take'n notes, Brian!!

BTW - Performance Products catalogs have stated in the past that the Lubro-Molly line of products are MB approved. But that's just them making a statement, I guess.

TK - I don't want to have a pep-ralley for the stuff. And, the only problem I've had (as in no more) here today, is that I can't figure out how a number of respectable diesel driving folks can claim they've used it. Claim it does good/great things. And yet, you still write it off in a crusade as a snake oil for suckers that can't do what a disassembly cleaning can, when nobody was claiming it could in the first place. As for their problems - Like we’ve been trying to say: They don’t have any when they use DP.

My apologies to all for getting curt on the DD board. Wont happen again.

TwitchKitty · #45 05-03-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.delano

27mm socket
bench vise
breaker bar
torque wrench
brass brush
cleaner

o yea and if you want to do it right(who really wants to pull the injectors just to clean the nozzles, you know you want them to pop and hold properly) you need
shims(few people know where to get these)$??
nozzles(if current ones aren't still good)mmmm Bozios, ~$30 each
Pop Tester- anywhere from $100 to $400
+ precious time measured in hours

if you don't want to go that route, rebuild service ~$50 per injector($250 for 5)
+ precious time measured in days + the trouble of shipping/receiving

LM DP- $6 for two cans. That's a whopping $12 and 10 minutes of your time for a very quantifiable result. Not as good as a rebuild, but not as much trouble or expense either. Good for when you want to try and clear up a little bit of light nailing/smoking or restore a bit of lost power. Not an engine rebuild-in-a-bottle as you contend that everyone thinks it is. We keep trying to tell you that we know what it's for but you won't get it.

TK- you'd make a piss poor trial lawyer, but maybe that's not such a bad thing

BTW- If the MB list came right out and said 'Hey do not do such-and-such or don't use such-and-such product' then it would mean something. Sure it's not on the list as of the last time you checked, but it's a German product after all, and I'll bet you it gets used quite liberally over there.

Wow, based on this thread I am not supposed to be a trial lawyer or a pilot. All because I urge people to read the factory shop manual instead of internet advertising.

Quote:

Sure it's not on the list as of the last time you checked, but it's a German product after all

Did you learn logic like this in law school? How much student loan debt did that cost you? I take it all back, DP may be the best investment you could hope to make.