hi guys... need some input on which year models i should be looking at which ones to avoid.....

i am currently selling our 2005 golf tdi gls 5spd... have to make a truck purchase and dont want 2 auto payments.... my wife mainly drives the tdi... so she will be driving whatever car i replace the tdi with ... we are hooked on the diesel cars... but not familiar with the mercedes brand.... i have heard about the 240d...300d... and the 2.5 300d's..... any suggestions and information will be of great help on these models with years to "avoid" thanks in advance... rob

general consesus, and I'm sure that others will weigh in, is avoid the 3.5 liter engine. DIFFERENT than the 3.0 liter 5 cylinder which is one of the best auto diesel engines ever made. the 3.5 had some serious internal issues that aren't easily solved. if they can be. ( someone will probably challenge me on that)

that said, any diesel mercedes can be a good car if treated right. I tend to get ones that other people have thrown away, fix them up and drive them for a few years till something major goes out that I can't afford to fix, then move on.

like any machine, they all take some maintenance, and the most popular ones (the 123 series, 240D 300D and 300TD wagon) are all over 20 years old,(made from 77-85) so how they've been treated matters a lot. maybe even more than initial quality which was top notch.

hope I've helped, and others more nollijabel than me will weigh in.

karl

Hmm something like a modern TDI that will make the wife happy...

I'd think late W124, like a 1994-95 E300D. Or an early 90's 300D with the 2.5L 602. Both will deliver 30mpg+ on the highway and are very durable and tough car/engine combo.

If you want to spend more, a 1998-99 E300D is a sweet ride.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Avoid is a strong word. The ones with the greatest potential for repair expense include:

- 90-91 350SD/L, 92-93 300SD and to a lesser extent 94-95 S350. All have the 3.5l OM603 which is frequently called the rod bender. Cars with engines rebuilt or replaced by MB have a very low incidence of recurring problems. If the car comes with documentation of a factory backed engine rebuild or replacement, it's worth considering. There's no way to check if an engine has bent rods without taking the engine apart. If it has the original untouched engine, it could go at any time. Typically the problem arises before 100K miles but I wouldn't put faith in a high miles original engine. Figure $10K to replace the engine. The 92-95 cars also have iffy AC evaporator cores which take 15-20 hours to replace. Figure $3000 to replace the AC evaporator. Other body systems like door closing assist can require time to troubleshoot and factory parts are expensive.

- 86-87 300SDL, 87 300D/TD. All have the 3.0l 603 in which the original head casting is prone to irrepairable cracks if overheated. The main observable symptom is cooling system pressure hours after the engine is shut off. There's no way to check if cracks are propagating in the cylinder head without taking the head to a machine shop for inspection. If you see one diagnosed to need a head gasket, chances are it needs a new cylinder head. If you find one with no symptoms of needing a new head, it can go a long time or forever without needing a new head. Figure $3K to replace the head with a later casting not prone to cracking - basically the 3.5l head.

- 90-93 300D 2.5. The original timing chain is prone to snapping. Depending on the operating conditions when the chain snaps, the engine could need a new chain or new valves, pistons and other things. If the engine is running well and there's no documentation that the chain was replaced, figure on $500 to replace the chain. Do it ASAP. The 190D 2.5 turbo which has the same engine is somehow immune to timing chain problems.

Other aspects to consider in the following models:

- 77-83 240D. It's very unfair that I list this car because it's bulletproof and childishly simple to service. The only reason I mention it here is that you have to develop an understanding of its abilities to drive it in modern traffic. I have some behavioral issues that won't allow me to be happy driving a 240D but based on the number still running, many people are well suited to it.

- 77-81 300D/CD, 79-80 300TD. These cars are only a little more complex than the 240D. The 5th cylinder makes them that much more difficult to service but you have to be as picky as Larry Bible to care The bigger engine gives them decent performance but the early type automatic climate control system can be expensive to service.

- 81-85 300SD. It is not my personal belief but some feel that the bigger body style and its additional ammenities means there are more things to go wrong than with a similar vintage 300D. I don't agree with this one bit. It has features like power seats which rarely need more than cleaning switches. If anything the bigger body means it's easier to service the engine and transmission which to me more than offsets the possibility of other failures.

I'm not familiar with the 190D so I can't comment on it.

Beyond these cars there's the 95 E300, 96-97 E300 and 98-99 E300 turbo. All share the basic 4-valve engine. The 95 has the W124 300E body style, the 96-99 have the W210 E320 body style. These engines seem to have an appetite for glow plugs. The glow plugs aren't difficult to service but more than a few glow plugs snap during removal requiring considerable effort to repair. Some early W210s suffer from front suspension mount points that succomb to corrosion and collapse. I don't know what it takes to repair the chassis but typically they are repaired if the collapse didn't send the car into a ditch or barrier.

Sixto

Id have to agree with hatties reccomendations. While I am far more partial to the older 84 & 85 300D Turbos and W116 300SD's, the later model W124 300D's are probably going to be a better match for you if you are looking for a car that is closer to your VW- the W124 300D offers modern times performance and handling with the build of the older generations of MB's- the W123/W116/W126's.

Look for a well cared for 1995 300D. The later generation 1998-1999 300D's are definitely a step up from the W124 if you are concerned about how modern the car is technically... but the newer MB's often face more electrical problems than anything, which can be rather bothersome. Build isnt quite as nice as the older 1987-1995 300D's.

__________________
Nate

1995 E420
1992 BMW 525i
1984 300D Turbo sold
1993 Volvo 244 sold
1995 Volvo 944T R.I.P!


"The details are not details. They make the product."
-Charles Eames

www.cbs.nu

thanks for all the info.... and yes a modern tdi does do the wife good...lol.... but for some odd reason she said you can sell the tdi.. but dont touch the camper..lol ..go figure... so from what i was just reading... the 190d with the 2.5 might be a good choice.. since they have somehow been immune from the timing chain breakage ? i know that they are smaller i guess... but i would assume its a little bit bigger than the golf.. any info on what years for the 190d with the 2.5?

No old diesel MB's have problems with timing chains snapping. As with any old car as time and miles march on they require maintaince. If you snap the original chain on a 350k mile engine, well what do you expect?

617's and early 602's for some reason seem to snap the oil pump chain once in awhile. However this is pretty rare and only seems to happen after a lot of miles like 300k+.

Usually sometime in the mid 200k range you have to roll on a T chain because of stretch. If you plan on keeping the car new tensioners and rails should be fitted.

Only Ebay MB's run for 500k with little work, it doesn't usually work that way...

Oh don't worry the little 190D 2.5's were originaly fitted with those vac pumps that self dustructed and took the engine with them. If the engine vac pump has not been updated, do so asap.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I believe the 190D 2.5 was available from 86-89. 87 was the only year a turbo was optional. It was the only MB Diesel available with a 5-speed during those years. US turbos only came with AT.

Sixto

the 190 with 2.5 would be a pretty good car. there were a few issues with head gaskets but most would have been changed by now prob. with a stick (rare) they will get mid to high thirties on the highway. they drive like a benz and will not feel unfamiliar to a vw driver. kindof like cousins.

and the quality is imho better than a vw overall. no timing belt.

buy the best example you can afford and get it checked by a mb diesel familiar mechanic including a compression test.

i am partial to the 240d with a stick though. it is slow but engaging to drive and very simple to work on. and will go 500k with good servicing. it really has no weak points.

good luck

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.