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  #46  
Old 05-03-2006, 10:19 AM
deniss's Avatar
'84 300SD W126/OM617
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central NJ, USA
Posts: 452
haha do we really need another fuel price thread?

we're already running diesel here and have the option of switching to biodiesel as it becomes more widespread - that's a good way to reduce dependency on oil and conserve natural resources. various local governments and school districts started exploring biodiesel options... i only wish big rigs started using that stuff, but for them i guess biodiesel prices would have to be competitive with regular dino diesel prices.

question is, can biodiesel market supply enough to completely convert current dino diesel market?
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  #47  
Old 05-03-2006, 10:29 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83-240D
to extract useable oil from canadian oil sand would take more energy in making the machinery to do so and powering those machines than would be recovered. this is something like a 1.5/2.5 : 1 ratio. why expend more to get less back?
Not true.....I think the break point is something like 80 a barrel today, and there are a few companies making money today... In fact CNBC had the CEO of Suncor Energy of Calgary on a few months ago. There is something in the order of 2 trillion Barrels of oil in these sands. Companies are still a little gun shy, and have every right to be. Exxon lost 5 Billion on an shale extraction process in NW Co, as a small example, there are many more. But even China has now been trying to secure an interest in the Oil Sands.

The biggest play in the unconventional reclamation game is in Alberta Canada. Oil sands production is over 1.2 million barrels per day, nearly double the output of four years ago. The old methods used nearly one barrel of crude to extract a oil barrel in the heating process.

Sure it's easier to just turn a ball valve and let the ground push up some since light sweet crude, but as the price rises.. more and investors will foot the bill and use technology to lessen the cost of extraction.

And yeah yeah all the talk about how it takes more energy to get the energy...that's what the experts said about Ethanol and look at Brazil, energy independent on suger cane.... There is alway more to the story. An engine designed to run on only E85 is more fuel effiecent then Gas like the flex-fuel cars GM is building now. They need to take advantage of the higher octane.
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  #48  
Old 05-03-2006, 10:39 AM
Registered Diesel Burner
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 2,911
There was a recent bit on CNN about Brazil and Ethanol. The story may also be on the CNN web site.

Brazil is using sugar cane to make a lot of Ethanol. Their automotive production lines are making cars that are designed to work well on a long-term basis on either gasolene or Ethanol, or mixtures. (Perhaps not pure Ethanol, I'm not sure I remember correctly.)

Anyway, they are ahead of other countries on adaption to Ethanol and solving the problems involved with heavier Ethanol use.

Incidently, ever seen alcohol burn? It's rather nasty to deal with because the flame is so hard to see. Someone in an accident might feel themselves getting burned but nobody can see the flame. If they are knocked out then they could cook and nobody would know it except maybe for the smell. OK, enough for that - back to pleasant thoughts.

Ken300D
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  #49  
Old 05-03-2006, 10:47 AM
Craig
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Guys, I think this is fairly simple. We are not talking about "running out of oil," we are talking about how much is going to be available at a specific price point. When we "run out" of $75/barrel oil, it will become cost effective to extract $100/barrel oil. At some point the demand will reduce significantly (although no one seems to know where that price point is) and the price will reach an equilibrium again. The inevitable part is that the cost will increase, the question is how much and how fast. At some point, alternative sources (bio-diesel, etc.) will actually become viable without any subsides, then we will see them widely available. Who knows, maybe within 5 or 10 years the diesel fuel market will be 15 or 20% bio-diesel, maybe sooner, maybe later.
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  #50  
Old 05-03-2006, 11:07 AM
aklim's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by deniss
haha do we really need another fuel price thread?

we're already running diesel here and have the option of switching to biodiesel as it becomes more widespread - that's a good way to reduce dependency on oil and conserve natural resources. various local governments and school districts started exploring biodiesel options... i only wish big rigs started using that stuff, but for them i guess biodiesel prices would have to be competitive with regular dino diesel prices.

question is, can biodiesel market supply enough to completely convert current dino diesel market?
Good point, Sherlock. What are most of the cars in the US? You paying for them to switch to diesel? Not everybody likes diesel. Next point. When gas prices go up, you won't be affected, right? Guess you get to laugh at the people who fill up. Only, don't forget to laugh at yourself when you go to the grocer and buy food since that price will go up. Oh, never mind, you won't notice it. Biodiesel will not supply a lot of other stuff that oil will. It also gets less mpg and has a paint stripping feature about it.

Probably not without some major changes. Even if it supplied the current markets, it won't support the markets if people switched to biodiesel.
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  #51  
Old 05-03-2006, 11:45 AM
deniss's Avatar
'84 300SD W126/OM617
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central NJ, USA
Posts: 452
hey aklim - chill dude.

if you took the time to read what I wrote, you'd realize that i was talking about the diesel market in the US, not the gas market. im just wondering how it would affect the fuel market in the US if all the vehicles currently running diesel in the US switched to biodiesel.

what's so wrong with asking that question and is there really a need for the constant hostility in your posts?
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