VW TDI engine into W123 wagon update - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

didget69 · #46 05-05-2006, 12:18 AM

For an adaptor to mate the VW engine to a T-5 trans, try Kennedy Engineering in California - they've adapted a lot of different engine & tranny combos...

bnc

#47 05-05-2006, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by libbybapa

Do you take issue with that?

Andrew

No issue. After intercooler, I can see working for a while but not in the 250* pre-IC air. I also used ABS for my air filter tubing but the end nearest the turbo inlet melted from the compressor housing heat.

Zeitgeist · #48 05-05-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by libbybapa

It is an old picture, but yes it is ABS. The large diameter one is between the air filter to turbo and smaller 180° curve is cooled air after the intercooler. The hot air between turbo and intercooler is a piece of actual intercooler tubing. I ran it that way for several thousand miles (running 18 psi of boost) without any difficulty. I am in the process of retrofitting a VNT to the van and so will need to replace the intercooler piping regardless and will not go with ABS on either side of the intercooler. I will still keep the ABS between the air filter and the turbo. Do you take issue with that?

Andrew

I'm surprised you were able to run that ABS as long as you did, even post IC. Years ago, I had a VW Thing to which I added some heater boxes with ABS tubes to run the heat up into the cabin (in addition to the stock gas heater). It didn't take too long before those tubes shrunk down to about 2/3 of their original diameter.

Was that van originally a diesel model, or did you convert? I've been hoping to drop a tdi into my '89 Wolfsburg Edition at some point.

libbybapa · #49 05-05-2006, 10:19 AM

It was originally an '83 diesel. Still, the conversion from a later WBX is not all that difficult either. Certainly the electronics of the TDI engine controls would be much harder than bolting up the carrier bars, adapting hoses and modifying the front tranny mount. The ABS tubing was always a temporary setup, it just stayed on longer than I would have intended because I deiced to swap to a VNT and so kept running it as is in the meantime.

Andrew

Diesel Giant · #50 05-05-2006, 02:46 PM

Don't stop the project! Good thing Mr. Diesel did not give up

Keep moving foward. You have to have about 2000 things to go right and you are just on #50.

You have a great idea and took the guts to get as far as you did.

keep going.

#51 07-02-2006, 02:10 AM

Nearly two months without an update. Any news on the project?

Ted_Grozier · #52 07-20-2006, 09:17 AM

At long last I have a bit of time (about a week!) to work on this project again. It is slow going and as a previous poster wrote there are a thousand things that have to go right before it runs.

In the next week I hope to get a suitable adapter plate made. Yesterday I was able to use a high-tech digital measuring machine to get some information from the MB adapter plate I have. This plate originally went between an OM617 and an automatic trans, although I have read here that the plate is the same for all 617/616 engines.

At the very least, this document should add to the body of knowledge for those of you interested in swapping Mercedes engines into other vehicles.

*** IMPORTANT FILE NOTE *** In order to upload the Excel spreadsheet (a file that the forum doesn't support) I added ".txt" to the end of the filename. Remove that .txt and the file should open properly.

In the first sheet you'll see a series of measurements. I laid the plate on the table and took the diameter of the big circle used to center the transmissions on some models. (This is the last measurement "T.") Then I set the origin of the coordinate system to this point and based the other measurements off of it.

I then used trig to rotate the whole thing (eyeballed) to what it looks like as installed in the car. Then I converted to metric units and did a plot to give you a sense of what you're looking at. The plot is not an engineering drawing but an Excel hack - don't use it as a template!

The most important holes are the ones for the dowels (D and E in the file) that serve to align everything very precisely.

Ted

badgator · #53 07-29-2006, 08:37 PM

Wow someone actually posted some useful measurements! I have spent many hours searching, but no companies will give you any and no individuals actually posted any. Now if someone has a VW TDI bellhousing measurement to crankshaft centerline...

Ted_Grozier · #54 07-30-2006, 12:50 AM

Oh yes - that's easy - see "TDI Engine CAD drawings" in the links section of http://www.haywood-sullivan.com/vanagon/TDI/

which is the same for all 4-cyl watercooled VWs...

BioBens · #55 07-30-2006, 10:53 AM

Your pioneering efforts are admired and appreciated.

Ted_Grozier · #56 08-27-2006, 02:11 PM

More news - unfortunately the project has taken a serious downturn since I accepted a job in New York City. I am hoping that somehow I can keep working on little pieces of it and then if I leave the city I might be able to finish.

Since the last time I wrote I installed a Passat oil pan. I think the engine will sit low enough now. If the tail of the 5-speed will sit on the regular 240D crossmember (I think it will) then the 240D driveshaft should work without modification.

This summer I also designed (using Pro-E CAD software) an adaptor plate that I think is complete. I'll send anyone the file and drawings if they are interested. Having it made is another story - can anyone recommend a good CNC shop in the northeast that will take on this kind of work without thinking I'm crazy?

Other things: got a starter that will work and is torquey enough (from a VW Dasher diesel); got the right release bearing for the clutch; got a Passat flywheel; got a turbo for the N-S engine orientation.

I think it might work, someday. In the meantime the mini-storage industry is enjoying my business!

Regards,

Ted

OMEGAMAN · #57 08-27-2006, 04:27 PM

You said the adapter you have went between a 617 and an automatic. What automatic was it. I am always thinking of where one of these engines might fit.

Ted_Grozier · #58 08-28-2006, 10:54 AM

The adapter I measured was the standard adapter or "intermediate plate" between the Mercedes engine and transmission.

As you know, putting an automatic transmission behind a diesel is more difficult than for a gasoline engine since the diesel does not produce manifold vacuum. If I were interested in using a Mercedes diesel in another vehicle and wanted an automatic I would probably pick the relatively tough and well-integrated Mercedes box since all the tuning was already done years and years ago in Stuttgart.

didget69 · #59 09-01-2006, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted_Grozier

More news - unfortunately the project has taken a serious downturn since I accepted a job in New York City. I am hoping that somehow I can keep working on little pieces of it and then if I leave the city I might be able to finish.

Since the last time I wrote I installed a Passat oil pan. I think the engine will sit low enough now. If the tail of the 5-speed will sit on the regular 240D crossmember (I think it will) then the 240D driveshaft should work without modification.

This summer I also designed (using Pro-E CAD software) an adaptor plate that I think is complete. I'll send anyone the file and drawings if they are interested. Having it made is another story - can anyone recommend a good CNC shop in the northeast that will take on this kind of work without thinking I'm crazy?

Other things: got a starter that will work and is torquey enough (from a VW Dasher diesel); got the right release bearing for the clutch; got a Passat flywheel; got a turbo for the N-S engine orientation.

I think it might work, someday. In the meantime the mini-storage industry is enjoying my business!

Regards,

Ted

Ted,

Look into these guys - http://www.emachineshop.com/ - they can quote & mfg whatever you need...

BNC

Ted_Grozier · #60 09-02-2006, 10:25 PM

Very cool link - thank you!

Ted