C-111 engine set up? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Rashakor · #1 05-23-2006, 11:41 AM

Ok,

Maybe somebody would know...

The mercedes C-111 prototype was the initial trial of the the 617 turbo diesel engine. that baby was putting 225hp and something like 370lbft of torque with an early 617 (basiquely the one that was put in the 300SD W116).
The question for this honorable audience would be: what was the set up around the 617 to squeez 225hp from it? What would it take to raise a
300SD to the glorious level of a 450SEL 6.9 ?

Mercedes started the 617 on that course why did they tone it down afterwards?

PD:Maybe this has been discussed before. in that case sorry.
PD 2: No the crazy finns won't help, their specialty is the 603 not the 617.

vstech · #2 05-23-2006, 11:55 AM

the motor had like 25psi of boost... I am sure their were other differances.
John

TheDon · #3 05-23-2006, 11:57 AM

25 psi of boost, larger plungers on the IP, intercooled,tuned specifically to harness all the power aval.. learn finnish and the fins will tell you

Eskimo · #4 05-23-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashakor

PD 2: No the crazy finns won't help, their specialty is the 603 not the 617.

Try searching this forum using the search terms "Finns" and "617".

The 617 has not entirely escaped their attention!

ConnClark · #5 05-23-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashakor

Mercedes started the 617 on that course why did they tone it down afterwards?

Reliability and longevity.

Getting more power out of an engine than it was designed to produce means more wear and tear on the engine. The OM617 wasn't designed to produce those power levels, it was pushed there. For example, I'm sure they ran much more boost than normal. This would increase wear on the rings and bearings.

I'm sure that the C-111 was more than just a record attempt and publicity stunt. In engineering its not unusual to push a design beyond its designed operating parameters for an extended period to see where it breaks before the design goes into production. This way weakness can be identified and corrected before it becomes a major problem.

#6 05-23-2006, 12:35 PM

They may have been able to get 225HP+ out of it for some time. But it's like a nascar engine. It might be okay for one or two races, but they have the money to rebuild them many times/year. It would be out of the question to send that into public circulation.

vstech · #7 05-23-2006, 12:48 PM

http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3200.asp?id=11583

Punctually at midnight of April 30, 1978, the five pistons in the diesel engine of the Mercedes-Benz C 111-III began to work, supported by an intercooled exhaust gas turbocharger which, at 130,000 revolutions per minute, pressed enough air into the combustion chambers to boost the output to 230 hp. That was more than enough power for accelerating the Mercedes-Benz in record-hunting trim to a top speed of around 325 kilometers per hour. Because of its very “long” ratio, the car did take its time, however – a complete 12.66 kilometer lap of the circuit in Nardo in southern Italy, to be precise - to reach this speed.

Yeah, I don't think it will go 1000000 miles much less than 10K I bet.
kinda hard to warranty that sucker!

Zeitgeist · #8 05-23-2006, 01:58 PM

IIRC, it had a specially built aluminum head, which was never available to schmucks like you and me. I've never seen a pic of the engine, so maybe it was a cross-flow design; possibly even a prototype for the OM60x heads. 225-230hp sounds a bit tame by today's diesel engine standards, even with straight mechanical injection.

H-townbenzoboy · #9 05-23-2006, 02:57 PM

Here's a photo of the setup I scanned from one of my books.

rg2098 · #10 05-23-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

The four drivers, who took turns at two-and-a-half hour intervals, drove this car from one diesel record to the next over a time-span of 60 hours, completed without any problems. In the end, a total of 16 new records had been established – those over 5,000 miles, 10,000 kilometers and 10,000 miles even were absolute world records, i.e. independent of the type of engine. Speed averaged around 252 km/h. So the diesel had proved its ability to race, and with a suitable ratio, the C 111-II completed the sprint from standstill to 100 km/h in just 6.8 seconds

10,000 miles and 0-60 in 6.8.

Rashakor · #11 05-23-2006, 04:37 PM

the oil filter looks like it is separated from the rest of the block ( a dry sump maybe?). From the pic looks like the only odd thing is the intercooler and the white box with a lever (what's that?). the view makes also the transmission look funny but i think is mostly due to staring at the engine from behind.

t walgamuth · #12 05-23-2006, 09:49 PM

not a cross flow head i dont think. actually looks pretty stock. but a fairly large turbo. yeah prob dry sump.

cool.

tom w

patterson · #13 05-23-2006, 11:04 PM

The biggest advantage of the C-111 engine was that it didn't have to start on a cold winter day, therefore lower compression could be used to allow higher boost pressure without detriment to the engine.

t walgamuth · #14 05-23-2006, 11:26 PM

good point.

tom w

Rashakor · #15 05-24-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patterson

The biggest advantage of the C-111 engine was that it didn't have to start on a cold winter day, therefore lower compression could be used to allow higher boost pressure without detriment to the engine.

Any data on the compression rates?