(Lack of) Mercedes quality - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #16 06-03-2006, 06:38 PM

Some people worry to much, I'd buy a 2000 E55 or S without a second thought. So what if it breaks once it awhile, so does the SDL. I'm used to it!

Veloce300DT · #17 06-03-2006, 08:06 PM

For me the problem is not that the newer models "break". All cars "break" from time to time. Its expected. BUT on the newer models the frequency of things "breaking" or not working properly is far too great for a car that is new.... it becomes a quality control issue; for example- your electronic ignition system needs maintenance or replacement at 3400K miles, and then fails again after after another 5K miles. Many electronic devices and features on the new MB's are proving to be the largest problem. Engines seem to be quite sturdy, but external electronic accessories that now regulate many of the basic operating functions of the car seem to be the rising culprit, or cause, for problems that keep the cars from being driveable, dependable, and reliable for use as every day drivers. I dont want a car thats going to be in the shop month to month for closure on never ending issues that are related to completely unecessary features. In my mind there was nothing wrong with mechanical design, enginnering, and technology. The W124 was the pinnacle of technical excellence for its time... its a car embodying relatively simple mechanical design when compared to the MB's of 2006, technically precise enginnering, top notch quality and build, and superb road holding manners. Nothing more, nothing less. What MORE do we need?

Until MB can get its quality issues uunder control, I wont be interested in anything newer than a W202. I have to admit that the new E55 AMG wagon is probably one of the most beautiful recent designs... but like most new MB's, if reliability and well rounded quality is what you seek.. dont look towards your local 3 pointed star dealer... most of the cars avail in the showroom today are forbidden fruit. A higher than normal amount of problems are to be expected. Which is unfortunate for a new car bearing the same 3 pointed star that our relatively superior & trouble free 10 year old and older MB's display.

DslBnz · #18 06-03-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veloce300DT

For me the problem is not that the newer models "break". All cars "break" from time to time. Its expected. BUT on the newer models the frequency of things "breaking" or not working properly is far too great for a car that is new.... it become a quality control issue; for example- your electronic ignition system needs maintenance or replacement at 3400K miles, and then fails again after after another 5K miles. Many electronic devices and features on the new MB's are proving to be the largest problem. Engines seem to be quite sturdy, but external electronic accessories that now regulate many of the basic operating functions of the car seem to be the rising culprit, or cause, for problems that keep the cars from being driveable, dependable, and reliable for use as every day drivers. I dont want a car thats going to be in the shop month to month for closure on never ending issues that are related to completely unecessary features. In my mind there was nothing wrong with mechanical design, enginnering, and technology. The W124 was the pinnacle of technical excellence for its time... its a car embodying relatively simple mechanical design when compared to the MB's of 2006, technically precise enginnering, top notch quality and build, and superb road holding manners. Nothing more, nothing less. What MORE do we need?

Until MB can get its quality issues uunder control, I wont be interested in anything newer than a W202. I have to admit that the new E55 AMG wagon is probably one of the most beautiful recent designs... but like most new MB's, if reliability and weel rounded quality is waht you seek.. most of the cars avail in the showroom today are forbidden fruit. A higher than normal amount of problems are to be expected. Which is unfortunate for a new car bearing the same 3 pointed star that our relatively superior 10 year old and older MB's display.

I think that's the idea. Look at the '92 600SEL W140. Nobody wants them, they are in short supply, and are dirt cheap....Why? Because very few around can afford to keep them running should something detrimental occur.

I could purchase an early decent mileage W140 600SEL for a few thousand dollars when just 14 years ago, They cost 130K dollars. That's about 180K dollars in today's money. Talk about a hit in value. Its not like the W140 is a poorly built car with an inferior engine, either.

The W126' valuation is not too much different today, mile/mile, condition/condition than the W140. And the W140 cost twice as much when it first debuted.

Veloce300DT · #19 06-03-2006, 08:57 PM

I couldnt agree with you more on the W140 cars. They were really the beginning and the end. Oddly the w202 squeaked by without too many problems, even though it was introduced a year after the W140.

W140 chassis cars are built like tanks- body sheet metal, fit and finish, and premiuim grade materials. But along with the new design came new electronic engine management systems.. that were and still are very sensitive and require quite a bit of attention. Reliability dropped, along with resale values.

By the 1998 Demise of the W140, after a short 6 year run, MBZ had revamped the E class, introduced a new E class coupe, added the SLK, M class, and various non U.S. market cars; some of which had been out for a few years- the A class, Vaneo, and had also handled partly in the development of the Smart line. In this time MB had shortened the run time of their chassis, opting to introduce new designs every 6 years or so... while also developing and marketing more and more gizmos and gadgets (which have proven to be more of a burden than welcome features of convenience) to keep up with other car manufacturers. And it hasnt changed since.

Keeping up in pace with trends and other automakers has been a driving force for MB now for at least 10 years. While they have tried to retain the integrity that set their products apart from everything else on the market back in the 80's and early 90's, it has been at the cost of quality loss, and sloppiness in engineering. Hopefully that will change.

Hatterasguy · #20 06-03-2006, 10:25 PM

Old W126's are dirt cheap too, who wants an old 560? If you can't work on it yourself they cost a fortune. MB parts are expensive, it costs $1k to do a TC on an M117. You could do a head job on a 351 Ford for less then $1k.

Old European cars have a select following, they are generaly expensive to repair, ect.

My problem is I know many people with late model MB's who are just so darn happy with the cars. Remember the happy owners don't come online and complain.

raMBow · #21 06-03-2006, 10:28 PM

It's been 18 months or so without problems here on the W210 (glow plugs - no problem). Oh replaced a parking light bulb. Did throw a code for EGR when it was 4 below or something, cleared it and it did not come back.

At this point I plan on keeping mine. Just rolled to town to pick up a movie for the bride and I. What a sweet ride. Completely detailed last weekend, beautiful. I'll drive it on the weekends, never in the snow, or rain. And work on those "issues" before they strike me. But mine still has original fuel lines with nary a drop, so go figure.

Sounds like 10 - 20 years from now there won't be any left except mine!!!

Hit Man X · #22 06-03-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Old W126's are dirt cheap too, who wants an old 560? If you can't work on it yourself they cost a fortune. MB parts are expensive, it costs $1k to do a TC on an M117. You could do a head job on a 351 Ford for less then $1k.

Old European cars have a select following, they are generaly expensive to repair, ect.

My problem is I know many people with late model MB's who are just so darn happy with the cars. Remember the happy owners don't come online and complain.

I would like an actual 560 versus a stripper that I'm building.

The labor is a bit high on the upper guides for the M116/7 but hell, then you're clear for another 100K easily. I think I asked and was quoted around 10 hours. I think the guides are a far larger issue than the chain itself.

It cost me around $1100 to do a timing belt on an LS400 (Second Gen w/ interference) along with a water pump, coolant flush, and thermostat... So it's all relative. I'd MUCH rather have a chain than a belt. The M106 in my BMWs uses a chain too.

lietuviai · #23 06-04-2006, 12:24 AM

A month ago I bought an 05 Civic for my wife. The guy selling it was moving across the country and couldn't drive two cars (he also had an 05 Accord).
It's a fantastic little car, is a blast to drive, handles better than any MB I've driven, except maybe the 05 CDI, gets nearly 40 mpg's on RUG and even has a decent stereo.
My wife hasn't driven it much since we got it. (get the hint?)

BTW, I think the quality of MB's started going downhill long ago starting with the W201 and W124's.