Since you sell Freeze 12.... do you sell the unique fittings necessary to remain legal once that is installed in our cars ?

It is described here :

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/fittlist.html

You can...cough..cough....use one of the old style r12 cap taps that wrapped around the body of the can....though I would never defile the EPA by doing such a dastardly thing.

According to that site, to replace HFC134a (or any other non-ODP refridgerant), no distinct fittings are required. Also, according to that site, sales of refridgerants isn't what is restricted.

Whatever refrigerant you have in your system is supposed to have a unique fitting... that is why there is a CHART of FITTINGS on that page showing the size, direction of thread, pitch of thread , etc...

IMHO, it's just not worth the hassle to use anything other than R-12 or R-134a. My life is complicated enough without having an AC system that I can't have serviced anyplace in the western world. R-12 just isn't that expensive anymore. It works well and your system was designed for it, so why not use it? Either get a license and buy R-12, or go to a shop and have it charged.

Just my $.02.

I bought a conversion kit from DG, came with the thread-on fitting for conversion. I can neither confirm or deny whether I installed them, I used an r-12 recovery unit to evacuate the system, and charged with freeze 12 a week ago. Been very happy so far. I know the makers of freeze 12 also sells conversion kits, and kits designed for repair shops to be able to convert many cars.

Chuck.

__________________
2000 C230 Kompressor "Frosty"

2007 PT Cruiser
2001 VW TDI Beetle
1999 Landrover Discovery II
1971 Corvette

Gone: 97 Cabrio, 83 240D, 93 VW Eurovan, 95 Volvo 850, 93 Chevy Astro Van, 77 VW Bus, 99 VW Jetta, 74 VW Bus

Obviously I totally agree with Craig...

But these other issues need to be out on the table when people are making their decisions.

N41EF, Obviously you did not install them... which means some unsuspecting AC mechanic or the next owner of your car may contaminate thousands of dollars in recovery equipment.

I suspect one reason you did not install them is that the DG kit ONLY contained the screw on fittings and NOT THE PROPER HOSE END TO FIT IT to your guages.
Am I correct in that assumption ?

You are supposed to install that fitting AND color code your system so that future owners / AC service shops will know what they are dealing with and can follow the law....

Where can you find those old style can taps these days ?

Try Carquest or Napa, you have to go to a real parts store and look through a paper catalog and have them order you one from the warehouse. They cost less than twenty dollars.

They make sniffers to identify different types of freon, and no competent shop that does a/c work will recycle freon unless they know what's in the system. They are well aware of the risks, unless they are incompetent and greedy.

Freeze 12 is mostly r134, so it's not some miricale freon, and is on the shelf at many parts stores.

Here's a very good side tap:

http://www.ackits.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AMA&Product_Code=85530

__________________
The Golden Rule

1984 300SD (bought new, sold it in 1988, bought it back 13 yrs. later)

"Where can you find those old style can taps these days ? "

For some reason most AC guys are using the side tappers now... they come in two usual sizes and I got mine from the local John Deere Tractor dealer.. although I am sure the regular AC sources like Carlisle Auto Air in San Antonio sell them... when I got mine a couple of years ago they were each less than $10.

John, have you seen the prices on those testers ? Often a shop has the testers for the types which they have recovery equipment for... R134a and R12 .. but don't have the big buck multi testers.. so if they find that what is in the system is not one of those two things they simple refuse to deal with that car....

Right, and I sure wouldn't want to work on a car that doesn't have r134 or r12 in it, there is too much gravy work out there.

Anyone on board who lives in either Buffalo or Niagara Falls, NY., who might know where I can get my car serviced with R12 ? It would be worth my while driving the return trip of about 180 miles to get it, as it is Verboten ib Canada since the 'Montreal Protocol'

__________________
1984 300SD TURBO DIESEL

This is true, IF, you are replacing the non-OD refrigerant with another non-OD refrigerant. Freeze 12 is 20% R-142b, which IS ozone depleting.

Here is what I think requires unique fittings for all motor vehicle air conditioning systems.
and even if I am not reading it correctly... like I missed some exception or something... they need to be unique to protect AC service people's equipment... to keep from mixing refrigerants accidentally --Greg

http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-AIR/1999/April/Day-28/a10630.htm

A. Refrigeration and Air Conditioning--Class I


(1) Criteria for Uniqueness of Fittings
Current SNAP regulations require that each refrigerant used in
motor vehicle air conditioning may only be used with a set of fittings
that is unique to that refrigerant. This final rule clarifies minimum
criteria for uniqueness of fittings.
In the course of retrofitting a motor vehicle air-conditioning
(MVAC) system, servicers of these systems, whether professional
technicians or do-it-yourselfers, must affix fittings that are designed
to work only with that refrigerant. To meet that goal, servicers must
install fittings that satisfy the requirements set forth below.
High-side screw-on fittings for each refrigerant must
differ from high-side screw-on fittings for all other refrigerants,
including CFC-12, and from low-side screw-on fittings for CFC-12;
Low-side screw-on fittings for each refrigerant must
differ from low-side screw-on fittings for all other refrigerants,
including CFC-12;
High-side screw-on fittings for a given refrigerant must
differ from low-side screw-on fittings for that refrigerant, to protect
against connecting a low-pressure system to a high-pressure one;
High-side quick-connect fittings for each refrigerant must
differ from high-side quick-connect fittings for all other
refrigerants, including CFC-12 (if they exist);
Low-side quick-connect fittings for each refrigerant must
differ from low-side quick-connect fittings for all other refrigerants,
including CFC-12 (if they exist);
High-side quick-connect fittings for a given refrigerant
must differ from low-side quick-connect fittings for that refrigerant,
to protect against connecting a low-pressure system to a high-pressure
one;
For each type of container, the fitting for each
refrigerant must differ from the fitting for that type of container for
all other refrigerants, including CFC-12.
For screw-on fittings, ``differ'' means that either the diameter
must differ by at least \1/16\ inch or the thread direction must be
reversed (i.e. right-handed vs. left-handed). Simply changing the
thread pitch is not sufficient. For quick-connect fittings, ``differ''
means that a person using normal force and normal tools (including
wrenches) must not be able to cross-connect fittings. Following are
some examples:
a \3/8\ (\6/16\) inch outside diameter screw-on fitting
with a right-hand thread differs from a \5/16\ inch outside diameter
screw-on fitting with a right-hand thread;
a \3/8\ inch outside diameter screw-on fitting with a
left-hand thread differs from a \3/8\ inch outside diameter screw-on
fitting with a right-hand thread;
a \3/8\ inch outside diameter screw-on fitting with a
right-hand thread pitch of 18 threads/inch does not differ from a \3/8\
inch outside screw-on diameter fitting with a right-hand thread pitch
of 24 threads/inch;
a quick-connect fitting differs from another quick-connect
fitting if all combinations of the same type male and female parts
(high, low, small can, 30-lb. cylinder) will not connect using normal
tools.

[[Page 22984]]

The sole exception to the \1/16\ inch difference requirement is the
difference between the small can fittings for GHG-X4 and R-406A. The
GHG-X4 small can fitting uses a metric measurement, and is slightly
less than \1/16\ inch larger than the small can fitting for R-406A. EPA
has concluded that these fittings will not cross-connect, and therefore
they may be used. No other exception exists, although EPA will consider
any requests on a case-by-case basis.
2. Response to Comments
A commenter noted that the fittings for small cans of GHG-X4 are
not \1/16\ inch different from those of other refrigerants, and
expressed concern that the fittings would be disallowed under the
criteria for uniqueness in today's rule. The commenter further
suggested that because the fittings were metric and EPA had confirmed
they would not cross-thread with other fittings, that an exception be
granted. EPA agrees and discusses this above.

B. Refrigeration and Air Conditioning--Class II

1. Unacceptable Substitutes
a. NARM-22
NARM-22, which consists of HCFC-22, HFC-23, and HFC-152a, is
unacceptable as a substitute for HCFC-22 in all new and retrofitted
end-uses.
NARM-22 contains HCFC-22, which is a class II ozone-depleting
substance. EPA does not believe it is appropriate to replace a class II
refrigerant with a blend containing a class II refrigerant. Listing
this blend as acceptable would be a barrier to a smooth transition away
from ozone-depleting refrigerants. Other alternatives to HCFC-22 are
already acceptable that do not contain any ozone-depleting
refrigerants.
In addition, HFC-23 has a lifetime of 250 years, and its 100-year
global warming potential (GWP) is 11,700.\1\ Both of these
characteristics are considerably higher than other HFCs and HCFCs.
Other acceptable HCFC-22 substitutes do not contain such high global
warming components. The 1993 Climate Change Action Plan directs EPA to
narrow the scope of uses allowed for HFCs with high global warming
potentials where better alternatives exist. For this reason, and the
fact that NARM-22 contains HCFC-22, the use of this blend as an HCFC-22
substitute is unacceptable.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

\1\ GWPs and atmospheric lifetimes cited in this document are
from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report
entitled Climate Change 1995--The Science of Climate Change, IPCC
Second Assessment Report. More recent values for GWPs and
atmospheric lifetimes published in the Scientific Assessment of
Ozone Depletion: 1998, World Meteorological Organization Global
Ozone Research and Monitoring Project--Report No. 44, may be
somewhat different than the values cited here but do not alter any
of the technical or policy determinations by EPA in this rule.