Exactly ,,,,,,, I have told our techs,,,, if you are tightening a wheel, and someone stabs you in the back,,, do not fall down until that wheel is tight.

__________________
95 SL500 Smoke Silver, Parchment 64K
07 E350 4matic Station Wagon White 34K
02 E320 4Matic Silver/grey 80K
05 F150 Silver 44K

I hate to say this, but the problem isn't the shop owner, it's the tech who worked on the car. The is what happens when "a work free drug place" mechanic works on your car after he drank/smoked his lunch. The proper thing for the shop owner to do would have been to pay for a wrecker, fix the car, and have the mechanic drug tested. Next time it could be your mother on a desolate road at 2:00 a.m. . No excuse.

In the future I would try and develop a relationship with a reliable & honest accomplished tech with a good reputation, and specify that when you bring your car in for service that you only want that 1 specific tech to handle the maintenance on the car.

You will feel better about the bill you pay when you pick up your car knowing that an accomplished tech has handled the service. The benefits are worth the extra time it may take to have a service performed on the car with only one tech working on it..... he/she will be able to tell you all of the specifics on how the service has been handled, true first hand details on the conditions of parts and systems insepcted, removed, replaced, and in need of maintenace. And of course, if there is a mis-hap, you know who is responsible. having a direct line of communication with your personal tech will promote all of these factors, and many more. And you will also be able to gauge his competency.

Most good techs have their work double checked. At a busy shop with more than one person handling a car work details can become fuzzy, which are more likely to be overlooked- sometimes leading to an accident, and an unhappy customer.

Techs are people, people make mistakes. There is no way a person can operate 100% of the time flawlessly. Naturally there will always be human error. All you can do is reduce the chances of it by being a discerning customer. Concerned for the accuracy of the work, and understanding of complications. Otherwise I reccomend designing a robotech mechanic.

Glad your daughter and yourself are okay.

__________________
Nate

1995 E420
1992 BMW 525i
1984 300D Turbo sold
1993 Volvo 244 sold
1995 Volvo 944T R.I.P!


"The details are not details. They make the product."
-Charles Eames

www.cbs.nu

If a state trooper had performed a safety check of your vehicle before your mishap, who would have gotten the citation? If you didn't want to pay the ticket and went before the judge and blamed it on your mechanic, what do you think the judge would say?

I know that thinking what could have happened to you and your child makes you furious and I am not trying to irritate you but there is always a trail of points where an occurrence like this could have been prevented and after the car left the mechanic's shop, all of those points were in your hands, none but yours.

The shop is at fault. Period. The shop put the customers life in danger, the mechanic should be drug tested, and everything they touched should be inspected for shoddy workmanship.

To expect the average driver to be aware of the possible shortcomings of repairs is absurd.

I had to have all 4 corners replaced once by a shop (brakes and all that that entails). Usually I like to get my hands dirty but when I'm in DC I can't do anything but change filters and stuff like that(no shop). When I'm in GA I have workspace.
Anyway, I came back from a road trip(DC to Chicago & back) and heard a rear brake a-draggin'. Brake feel was still there, didn't feel much resistance either, but the sound was unmistakeable. Being the stickler that I am, and not wanting to push my luck with the brakes(never a good idea), I deviated from the usual professional that I go to(RC Imports in Rockville MD- the best there is), and went to another in the area that is highly lauded. Had brakes done on all 4 corners(hoses, pads, calipers, rotors) because the guy insisted that I replace all four. Said the rotors were all worn down and had grooves in 'em. Funny my Dad, a retired F-15 engineer, told me a couple months before they were fine on both ends. Anywho, I said sure. Go ahead. I didn't have time to mess around, as I needed to go out of town again soon. Had to have the A/C charged up too as it lost charge over the winter. Summer in these cars without A/C is a difficult thing to deal with. But anyway the bill came to I think $1875 which raised my eyebrows a little, but I paid it with a smile and left. This is the shop where all the old rich folks go to have their Benzes serviced(Benz only). Price reflected that. Brakes felt just the same as they did when I dropped the car off.
Next part of the story. Had to go out of town again(love to drive the diesel) and had just crested Sandstone Mountain WV and was on my way down the western side when the pedal goes to the floor. I soil myself, right. I mean I got scared. Still have my fronts! So I limp to my destination, as the braking of the engine+fronts are adequate as long as I watch my speed. I check the rears and both calipers were puking fluid.
I call the shop, they said they wanted to make it right and arranged for a wrecker to come and get the car. When I get the car back this time, they said they had checked the master cyl out before and it checked out OK so they didn't replace it, but it had failed and locked the rears and boiled the fluid out of the calipers. they replaced the rear brakes again, and the fronts(additional load on the front brakes wore 'em out) but charged me an additional $400 for the master cyl R&R.
Now- I could have lost my life too. But I didn't! However I have a bit of an adventurous attitude. I paid them AGAIN, but I can say that I will never return for their services as long as I live. I should have just taken it to Rick at RC but just wanted to try someone else out. I think I got fleeced, and I knew that. Live and learn. I work hard for my money too. But I know that mechanics work hard for theirs, and I will not ***** about price usually because I've done their work and it ain't easy nor is it a windfall of profit. I won't badmouth them either, but there is nothing in the books that says I can't relay my experience to others and let them draw their own conclusions. Vote with your wallet people after all. I realize the margin for human error, but excuses are like *********s.

My view is, if you do poor work you deserve to be crucified. The way everybody on this forum brags about these old cars you would think that it would be OK to haul valuable cargo in them i.e. children. So the argument that you shouldn't give your kids a ride in a 20 year-old MB is ludicrous. The guy paid good money for professional work and got burned. I for one feel his pain, but had less to lose. All those siding with the mechanic need to check their logic. If you do brake/suspension work professionally for a living and are accredited as such, then you should be held accountable for said work just as a doctor or an architect is held liable for the work that they do. End of story. If your crap work results in loss of life, it should mean loss of livelihood for you, period. I'm a hardass about taking pride in your work, paying attention, and DOING YOUR JOB. I'm also all about getting a lawyer to sue the absolute ***** out of some piece-of-***** mechanic that didn't dot his Is and cross his Ts when he performed critical work on my car. Probably because I come from a military background. Just no excuse for crappy work period. I don't care how many distractions are about.
Willrev I am glad that your daughter is OK and that you are OK- just do your own work from now on. If you ever get to the point that you don't trust yourself anymore and can hide your own easter eggs, that's the time to find a reputable pro to do the work for you. And your mechanic deserves a good old-fashioned blanket party for the fine work he did for you.

__________________
'02 BMW 325i
'85 300D 450k
'93 190E 2.6 170k(killed by tree)
'08 Ducati Hypermotard 1100S 6k
'06 Ducati S2R800 14k(sold)

The shop probably pinched the rear brake hoses with vice grips when they replaced the calipers, this is a common way to speed up the job, because you don't have to bleed the system when done. This ruins the hoses. The hoses acted as one way valves and didn't let the fluid return after using the brakes.

I couldn't agree with you more. If you go to the doctor and get treated are you expected to research the appropriate treatment methods on your own to make sure the doctor didn't make a mistake? If you hire a contractor to build a deck are you expected to learn the building code afterwards and make sure he built it correctly? If you hire someone to do your taxes are you expected to become familiar with the tax code and double check their work? So why are you expected to double check the work of a mechanic???

Scott

__________________
Scott
1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000
1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000)
1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold)
1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold)
1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!)
1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold)
1995 Ducati 900SS (sold)
1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold)
1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.)
1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold)
1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold)

In winter 2004 I had Midas in Sault Ste. Marie put front struts on a '87 Audi 5000 Quattro. A little over a month later I was driving in down a bumpy road and thought a huge chunk of snow+ice got stuck in the wheel well, which is not hard too imagine up here. Turns out that the bolt which secures the ball joint to the lower control arm was loose. The ball joint just popped out and the wheel was held with the tie rod, axle and upper strut mount. I was lucky since my wife often took the car on the 55mph snowy roads, and it happened to me doing about 20. So being more thankful than blameful I only negotiated the $175 labor back (my parts), and I put it back together. Wife was in the car when it happened and got freaked out, thinking of what could have been. Really sucked, she agrees it wasn't my fault but has been sworn against beaters since. Inspired her to buy an overpriced used A6 from the dealer which has been to back to the dealer at least a dozen times for a variety of problems with a $50 deductable (per warranty) each time, now out of warranty I'm with Brian C...a good reason to do the work yourself.

Scott98-

I couldnt disagree with you more!

While you arent EXPECTED to do any of those things, I would think that it would be in anybodys BEST INTEREST do double check all contracted work no matter what it is BEFORE and AFTER!

"If you go to a doctor, and get treated are you expected to research the apropreate treatment methods on your own to make sure the doctor didnt make a mistake?"

I CERTAINLY hope ANYONE going in to have a medical health problem checked, diagnosed, and treated will research their symptoms on their own, research possible problems on their own, research various different reatments on their own, and get multiple opinions from expert doctors BEFORE they are treated- not only to better EDUCATE YOURSELF about your problem, but to also better understand the doctors, healing options, and to avoid a misdiagnoisis, or even worse, malpractice!!!!! And it makes even MORE sense to have your now resolved medical issue double checked AFTER treatment to ensure that everything related is properly healing etc....

"If you hire a contractor to build a deck, are you expected to learn the building codes afterwards and make sure he built it correctly?"

I would think the WISEST thing to do would be to research your local building codes related to the job YOURSELF, BEFORE a contractor is even hired to ensure that you are hiring a reputable contractor who knows what he is doing. This is a priceless thing to do on your OWN as it can save you from possibly having to spend MORE $$ correcting a job carried out by a contractor whom didnt build following local building codes.... which is a far more common practice than one might think! Do you know how INSANE building codes can be?, and how tempting it is to cut corners if it means saving energy and time on a bunch of b.s. regulations? I see it happen all the time, and when something isnt to code, the property owner is fined, and you have to hire another contractor to bring things up to code.

"If you hire someone to do your taxes, are you expected to become familiar with the tax codes and double check their work?"

I certainly would so I know that my taxes are 100% properly filed to avoid getting less or more than I really should.

Being educated about matters like these never hurts, NEVER. It can only work in your favor, and be a TOTAL benefit in the long run- wether it be saving your life, saving your money, or saving time making corrections for issues that should have never existed in the first place. I personally feel that as a consumer it is my JOB to educate myself about such issues so I can be sure that when I subcontract any type of work out to someone else that I am getting the best possible service/product for the price.

And I must say that the same applies to auto repair. I personally feel that if you own a car, it is in your favor to not only know how to push the gas pedal, shift the gears, hit the breaks, pump the gas, and pop the hood, BUT to also know HOW IT WORKS. Not only so you can be more knowledgeable and aware about the machine you pilot, but also so you can bettter understand your mechanic and services that are performed on your car- which enables you to be able to tell if something isnt right when you get your car back. If you have a tire rotation performed, shake the tires after you get the car back. Know how they are supposed to feel when you shake them. Know what your car feels like when it is in proper mechanical shape while you are driving it. WHY? so things like wheels dont fall off 4 blocks down the street and send your car careening into oncoming traffic, or up onto a sidewalk full of pedestrians.. which you as a person will be responsible for- in addition to your tech. You may be paying someone to do a job for you, but unfortunately that doesnt mean its going to get done right. and beyond that, mechanical quality control can be beyond that of human control. Mechanical components are bound to break.

There are lots of idiots out there- even doctors, contractors, tax agents, and mechanics. Go the extra mile and first protect YOURSELF before you put that responsibility into someone elses hands. Make sure that you are confident that you are putting responsibility into competent hands.

Nobody likes getting hurt, or hurting other people- esp. mechanics whom have a reputation to hold in order to get business. There is a certain amount of responsibility a consumer must take on before they can pass on the responsibility to a 2nd party contractee... and vs. versa. Its unfortunate that many consumers feel no obligation, or desire to know more about things like this. And it is unfortunate that there are service providers that operate at less than qualified levels.
But in the end we are responsible for only ourselves, and our own well being. "Thats what insurance is for" "Thats what lawyers are for". Why let it escalate to that level?

Isnt it great knowing that you have a hefty amt of control over how your life, finances, and assets are handled? and WHO the best person to utilize in aid is?

I certainly would rather make my own educated decsions about how my life and assets are best handled to my BEST interests than to let others take on those decisions for me, even if I dont have the expertise and ability to carry the WORK out all by myself. It is in MY best interest. It enables me to avoid as many headaches and problems as possible in the long run.

an EDUCATED consumer is a smart consumer, I dont think there are many that would disagree. Why do you think I am a member of this forum?

Is a mechanic responsible for checking on work that he/she completed 2 months ago? Only if you put that responsibility into his hands. hopefull he has good ones.

__________________
Nate

1995 E420
1992 BMW 525i
1984 300D Turbo sold
1993 Volvo 244 sold
1995 Volvo 944T R.I.P!


"The details are not details. They make the product."
-Charles Eames

www.cbs.nu

Because they are paid by flat rate, and taking shortcuts means a larger paycheck, and some of them belong to a "work free drug place".

Life in danger? While it sounds great and is quite dramatic its quite far from the truth. I purchased a car with wheels that were not designed for it that had been put on by the previous owner. Something broke while I was driving and I watched my drivers side wheel and tire break free and pass me. The car did not drop to the ground instantly and I still had directional control with the other wheel on the ground. Unfortunatly driving skill and being level headed is not a skill that all drivers possess. If your going to panic and throw your hands off the wheel you may likely get hurt.

Its just plain irresponsible not to be aware of your car's mechanical condition. American's have become lazy and are willing to "trust their lives" to people who make mistakes. While its the American way to be sue happy it does you little good to collect a judgement when your dead. Although your relatives would be happy to collect it as part of your estate.

And as for your drug comments. I would be more concerned with someone who is tired or distracted than someone who is "on drugs".

[QUOTE=rchase]

Its just plain irresponsible not to be aware of your car's mechanical condition. American's have become lazy and are willing to "trust their lives" to people who make mistakes. While its the American way to be sue happy it does you little good to collect a judgement when your dead. Although your relatives would be happy to collect it as part of your estate.

QUOTE]

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Most people who use pros on this forum ARE aware of the mechanical condition of their cars; that's why they usually TELL the mechanic what to do/replace instead of asking the mechanic to diagnose. If the mechanic fails to do his part properly, as in follow proper procedure, use proper parts, and pay attention, how is the owner responsible for that? If I pay for a service, I am entitled to the faithful performance of said service. If some screwball mechanic messes it up or fails to complete the job it's on HIM, not on me.
It's outrageous to me, that you would blame the owner of the car for the mechanic's screwup. That's what this thread is about. Not lazy Americans and their tendency to not do anything for themselves, which is another discussion entirely.

__________________
'02 BMW 325i
'85 300D 450k
'93 190E 2.6 170k(killed by tree)
'08 Ducati Hypermotard 1100S 6k
'06 Ducati S2R800 14k(sold)

It is not a question of blaming one or the other, both are to blame. If you drove a car with a loose spindle nut, don't you think you would notice it? The mechanic hasn't seen the car for a month, the owner has seen it every day he drove it, how long was the nut loose?

You cannot change the fact that people are not perfect and will make mistakes. You can change the way you function in an imperfect world. Change what you can change and quit acting like you are a victim, too helpless to see the difference.

noone said the spindle nut was left loose, just the lock nut allen screw was not tightened. and from the few posts the OP left, it looks like he did notice it...
John