Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 09-25-2006, 05:59 PM
cazart's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 30
THANKS for your reply.
First it's a TD, not an SD. Does that matter?

Second, what, exactly is a "hard start relay?" It sounds like a direct switch from battery to starter. Yes? No?

Third, I had a brief convo with the garage this morning, there was some talk that they thought I had a bad solenoid. TRANSLATION - "We have no freakin' idea." (Remember, the starter is only 8 months old.)
Any thoughts on how to get them to think more critically? I faxed a version of my "checklist" over this morning...

__________________
Oro en Paz, Fierro en Guerra.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-25-2006, 07:42 PM
cazart's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 30
Now they're thinking it's the relay.
@(#*$P@!!!!
I already replaced the relay. Helped for about 2 weeks. Then, stranded me again. How can I get them to listen to reason!?:fork_off:
__________________
Oro en Paz, Fierro en Guerra.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-26-2006, 02:12 AM
Bens lover's Avatar
Benz Whisperer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Surfers Paradise,Australia.WHERE THE SHARKS COME OUT TO PLAY! And Vancouver Canada where it rains everyday!
Posts: 650
I see you have replaced most if not all of the important electrical components.
You need to remember one thing here ....I had two problems with this starter.First the brushes were completely worn out,second I suspect that the ground wire between the stater and sub frame was faulty.Even though it may look ok at first sight I would replace it because the cost alone of this cable is so inexpensive,making it well worth the replacement.Now on the issue of replacing or having the starter rebuilt,I would go with the latter.Its much cheeper then a reman one.These starters are built very strong and are there for the long haul.If it is rebuilt correctly it will last just as long if not longer then a reman one at more then half the price.
But this is my opinion only,
Best regards to all
Dan
Vancouver BC
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:34 AM
cazart's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 30
I got them to promise to look at the ground strap yesterday. If they did, I'll be...placated. Not satisfied but placated. Thanks for checking in.
__________________
Oro en Paz, Fierro en Guerra.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:42 AM
sailor15015's Avatar
Reverse lights! Score!
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,184
You can check to see if its the ground strap yourself. Mine was showing some odd symptoms, start would just click, jumpy gauges, ect. It was recommended to me to check the main grounding strap but I was afraid to loosen one of the bolts that mates the engine and transmission so I added an extra grounding cable from where the air cleaner bracked attached to the engine to where the battery grounds out on the body. It was meant to be a temporary fix but its worked so good its been there for over a year now.
__________________
Seth

1984 300D 225K
1985 300D Donor body
1985 300D Turbo 165K. Totaled. Donor Engine. It runs!!!
1980 300SD 311K My New Baby.
1979 BMW 633csi 62K+++? Dead odo
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 09-26-2006, 01:37 PM
cazart's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 30
Does anyone have a picture of what a proper one looks like?

UPDATE: Well, they checked the ground strap, swear it's fine, swear there's power getting to the starter, swear it's the relay.

I guess I'll do the swearing the next time it doesn't #!&*ing start. Will give some love to that three-terminal block, and look for good starter remanufacturer people. If anyone has a recco for the Bay Area, let me hear from you.

As always, thanks for your advice.
__________________
Oro en Paz, Fierro en Guerra.

Last edited by cazart; 09-26-2006 at 02:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-26-2006, 04:47 PM
Motorhead's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ca.
Posts: 976
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazart View Post
Now they're thinking it's the relay.
@(#*$P@!!!!
I already replaced the relay. Helped for about 2 weeks. Then, stranded me again. How can I get them to listen to reason!?:fork_off:
A 'HARD START" relay is one that you ADD to the starting circuit to cut the AMPERAGE draw that is normally controled by the ignition switch in START position. It IS NOT factory installed. The starter switch now controls a very low amp draw relay that now controls the high amp draw starter solenoid. I installed them for YEARS in 6 volt Volkswagens with the same problem. Don't knock it until you try it.
__________________
My Truck.. 2007 DODGE, 5.9 Cummins, 6spd stick, 4X4. My car..1977 240D, OTHER WHEELS...1955 VW Oval window bug, European Delivery (Holland) with a 1700cc, 2 barrel, Porsche drum brakes. 1939 WILLYS Pick-up. 1967 Triumph 200cc Tiger Cub. 1976 Honda 550F 4cyl Motor Cycle.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-26-2006, 04:51 PM
cazart's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 30
AIEEEE!
The last thing I would knock is this mysterious hard start relay you keep mentioning. I would love nothing more than to install one. Please - lay your wisdom on me. HOW do I do this?

(They were talking about the little 5-blade relay that's right next to the 3-terminal block. Which pissed me off because I'd already replaced it.)
__________________
Oro en Paz, Fierro en Guerra.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-26-2006, 07:06 PM
Motorhead's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ca.
Posts: 976
Ok, Go onto ebay or an autoparts store and buy a BOSCH 30amp relay. They are 1x1x1 inch cube relay. On ebay, some come with a 5 pin plug.On the side of the relay you will see a directory as to which leads are which. Mount the relay right next to the three screw terminal strip. Take and ground terminal "85" on the relay by making a small wire from that terminal (85) and grounding it at the other end. Remove the screw holding the SMALL starter solenoid wires on the 3 terminal strip. Take the wire that comes from the BODY of the two and connect it to terminal "86" of the relay. The other small wire heads down to the starter. Make a short wire up and hook it from terminal "87" of the relay and hook it and the starter solenoid wire back up to the terminal strip. DO NOT use terminal "87A"!! Make up another short wire and hook it to one of the two LARGER battery screws on the 3 terminal strip. Hook the other end to the "30" terminal on the relay.

VERY IMPORTANT....... If you can solder all of the wire terminals on... that is best. If you can't, make sure that ALL terminal connections are good and solid. MAKE sure that the small wire from the BOSCH relay to GROUND is good or else the relay won't work.
Any questions ..... post or PM me. Chris
__________________
My Truck.. 2007 DODGE, 5.9 Cummins, 6spd stick, 4X4. My car..1977 240D, OTHER WHEELS...1955 VW Oval window bug, European Delivery (Holland) with a 1700cc, 2 barrel, Porsche drum brakes. 1939 WILLYS Pick-up. 1967 Triumph 200cc Tiger Cub. 1976 Honda 550F 4cyl Motor Cycle.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-26-2006, 07:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Way overkill but cheap and useable. Ford remote starter solinoid. About 10-15.00 still and usually available. Also coiuld just grab one in an auto wreckers for a couple of bucks. Does the same job as the relay previously mentioned. Still see them wired into the occasional older car here in the north in fact one of my 240ds has one as well. This does not mean I endorse the trigger circuit for the solinoid on the starter has too much reistance on your individual car. It is just what is usually used if voltage drop to the starter solinoid primary circuit has too much resistance. Indicated by too little voltage available at the small starter terminal when key is turned to the start position is the usual test. The relay is primarily to eliminate the effort to find the true high resistance in the circuit as those circuits all worked at onetime. Most the time though it usually is a problem in the starter solinoid itself. A small relatively cheap digital meter is probably about mans best friend for working around electrical things on your car once you get used to it.To clean up battery terminals and any connections in the circuit is usually a good thing. People notice that every termination I do I treat to prevent future oxidation. Just try to tell them I really never like to do a job twice.

Last edited by barry123400; 09-26-2006 at 07:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-26-2006, 07:46 PM
cazart's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 30
Humph. Well, I did install one of them Bosch things. BUT...I didn't solder it. As I was stuck in the parking lot on Sunday, I switched it back out for the old one (hey, I was bored,) and sure enough, the garage was convinced that the relay was the problem. I'm still somewhat dubious on this, but they re-installed the Bosch, so I am confident that it'll at least be solidly installed.
Plus, I'm having them replace the neutral safety switch - it's a 21-year old car and a $37 part, so might as well.
I feel lots better now. Thank you all for your help, especially you, Motorhead. Will report "progress" as things develop.

Aloha!
__________________
Oro en Paz, Fierro en Guerra.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-27-2006, 02:22 AM
Motorhead's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ca.
Posts: 976
As these cars age, the contacts on all electrical items wear and degrade.
My '55 VW had dim headlights just receiently. HEY...it's only 51 model years old! I had about 4 volts at the lamps with them on. I improved the contact connections on the headlamp switch, took apart, cleaned and lubed the dimmerswitch and cleaned up the lamp sockets. I got 5.75 volts without the engine running. I installed a 50amp Porsche charging system on it when I restored it and now the lamps ALMOST seem as bright as 12volt lamps .
__________________
My Truck.. 2007 DODGE, 5.9 Cummins, 6spd stick, 4X4. My car..1977 240D, OTHER WHEELS...1955 VW Oval window bug, European Delivery (Holland) with a 1700cc, 2 barrel, Porsche drum brakes. 1939 WILLYS Pick-up. 1967 Triumph 200cc Tiger Cub. 1976 Honda 550F 4cyl Motor Cycle.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-27-2006, 09:09 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Motorhead, you of course are right. Just occured to me that oxidation of the contacts to some extent is almost inevitable eventually. We used to have good industrial contact cleaners in spray bombs years ago. Would be good to clean out some of our switches with today. Get the cleaners that are plastic safe as well. Most times then you do not have to take switches apart to clean them. Also as you also demonstratd with that 55 vw. Having a working relationship with a meter and some understanding of how to apply it is really a good tool and skill to have around old cars. I also find that some people do look at electrical as a black void. For example I am now increasing my knowledge about chemical processes and do not feel comforatable yet but am starting to become acclimated a little. At what garages charge per hour, even if ethical, It would seem to me to be financially worthwhile to learn a little about electricity for the majority of people that own older cars. Could also save you up to 100.00 per hour. I realise a good portion of the board members already have knowledge in this area. For those that do not give it a little consideration. There are not too many things left out there that are basically free. Learnng the basics of electricity from a library book for example could be interesting and productive. It's not rocket science. Motorhead, I have not seen a tigre cub for a really long time. Was always impressed by how high they sat. Forgot if they were 200 or 250 cc. But suspect 200cc. Also years since seeing a volkswagon of 55 vintage as well. They do not even turn up at car shows this far north anymore.


Last edited by barry123400; 09-27-2006 at 09:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page