Sell my "real" car and replace with a MB? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

iNeon · #16 07-06-2006, 03:37 PM

As a diesel MB owner, I understand the value in these old cars. They are heavy, sturdy and fairly reliable-- nothing compares to the feeling of heft you feel in one, nothing.

But you all are forgetting that these cost major dollars to repair and keep on the road. It isnt in monthly installments like on new cars, but a lot of people find it easier to just drive a car without repairing it while paying those 300 dollar a month payments instead of assuming their old merc will just keep going, while spending that money that NEEDS to be put away for repairs on living expenses.

I have a modern car(neon DOHC) and the 79 240-- which am i driving in this 100 degree weather? Which gets me where i need to go with only fuel and oil? When one of them needs a part, which do you think is cheaper to source said part for? Which one does not need 2,000 worth of front-end repairs that I cannot afford, at a short 150k? it surely isnt the Mercedes.

It is one thing to say these cars are reliable and long-lasting. It is another completly to tell someone that these cars need only "minor" repairs if they are 'well maintained' but it is a bold-faced liar that convinces someone that a 30-year-old car is going to be more reliable than anything produced 4 years ago.

I purchased my 240 on youalls recommendations, i enjoy it immensly, too-- but had i to do it all over again? I'd buy another neon and save myself the headache of perpetual adjustments, filter changing, quirks, antiquated safety equipment and the impossible to find small bits that just fall off of old cars. There is also much **MUCH** value in free time-- something of which you will have MUCH less of if you decide that your daily driver will be a 30 year old precision engineered kraut can.

These cars are great, but if you want a car you can wear good clothes in-- they are surely not for you. I cannot tell youall how many of my sleeves have been ruined by a certain hunk of recycled kraut cans.... not that i'd ever part with him at this point. it is a love/hate thing--

bgkast · #17 07-06-2006, 04:23 PM

Good points by all. I guess first I have to go look at the wagon, getting a bit ahead of my self here.

Here are some shots of the $1800 beast.

300SDog · #18 07-06-2006, 06:24 PM

Neon, you remind me of what my mother said (millions of years ago, bless her soul) when i set out cross country in my first old Benz - a $600 bargain car. Am not tryin to steer anybody wrong, my assumption is the author of this thread knows what he's doing.

Quote:

But you all are forgetting that these cost major dollars to repair and keep on the road.

Yep, and anybody can become a sucker for professional repairs if they cannot anticipate, accomplish or arrange a simple maintenance schedule that covers obvious stuff like flushing the cooling system twice each yr, annual valve adjustment, occasional wheel allignment, douching hydraulics with fresh DOT4 every few years, nipping tranny adjustment problems in the bud, etc. And anybody who caint figure out the importance of this kinda maintenance schedule should probly run with a brand new neon, kia or mitsuyota econo car for peace of mind.

Heck, we hear alot about folks having hydraulic problems with brakes callipres, master cylinders and clutch slave cyls in this place. But what nobody says is that the cars have been driven with hydraulic fluid that's black as pitch for the last 12 yrs because NOBODY maintains em properly with at least a tri-annual fluid flush.

Meanwhile I will always recommend fine old Benz's for racking up millions of miles, *assuming* who drives them knows what they're doing and pays em enough attention to be able to prevent anything major from going wrong. You've just gotta be able to anticipate (and not panic) when stuff like the water pump, alternator, starter or timing chain might be wearing out. I guess these are the sort of items you mean by "the impossible to find small bits that just fall off of old cars." But these components are actually basic 50, 100 and 200k mile maintenance items for any car - arent they?

KylePavao · #19 07-06-2006, 06:27 PM

Ineon,

Don't know whats up, but honestly is the price of free time worth the embarassment of driving a Neon?

I am a college student with basic mechanical abilities, and this 1976 300D has gotten me through two years of college. Driving to the parties, late night Mickey D's runs. Never let me down. A well maintained Benz diesel's engine and driveline can last a LONG time. I mean suspension, bushings, and that stuff...that wears out, makes the ride sloppy etc. But is is 100% necessary? No. I'd rather have your nice 240D (I had an 83 white 4 speed with 376,000) and a non working AC system (like I had) than a Dodge Neon with all the bells and whistles any day. Which has charisma, which has soul, which has doors that close solidly?

For me thats what it comes down to. If the old cars scare you on maintenance...try the new ones!

If you own a VW transporter, I assume you know a bit about wrenching

So these Benzes are a piece of cake, and parts can be sourced cheap. Surely not all parts are as cheap as a neon or focus, but lets wait to see how well an exhaust on a 23 year old focus will be looking.

In short: If it runs well and has no rust, get it!

iNeon · #20 07-06-2006, 09:23 PM

must be embarrassing to be hung like a toddler...

I don't hate my Mercedes, I love him to death, but everyone seems to act like these things go and go, and that *if* it breaks down(not when) that it will be easy and cheap to repair it.

It isn't-- far from it, actually.

The general public doesn't think these cars are money pits for no reason-- They are.

Let me say it again: That focus is going to need NOTHING for 100,000 more miles. To get that many trouble-free miles out of an $1,800 w123 is going to cost exactly what it would to just buy the Focus over again-- and with much more downtime and every other weekend spent under the hood for those 100,000 miles.

KylePavao · #21 07-06-2006, 09:40 PM

I am sorry, the comment was tongue in cheek, hence the face. If it makes any difference I have an equally "embarassing" other car, a 93 Subaru Impreza. Never really drive it, but keep it if the MB is in the shop..hasn't been yet.

Sorry, didn't mean to hurt you or your Neon's feelings.

Oh and the general taxi cab drivers in Europe don't think these things are money pits..I guess they must have deep pockets to spend. Maybe they should all use Neons and Focuses?

Look at any photos from mid 80's to mid 90s, hell even sometimes now! Plenty of W123 taxis. If I remember, a Greek driver put 4.6 million KM on a W115 240D.

iNeon · #22 07-06-2006, 09:58 PM

Things are *very* different when you are paid per mile traveled, no?

Its cool-- I don't have to like yours, you don't have to like mine-- It is hard to gauge inflection with mere words on a screen, even if there is a smiley next to it.

KylePavao · #23 07-06-2006, 10:15 PM

I agree. If I was a taxi cab driver, it would be a different story. My job is only 25 minutes away. I just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was totally thrashing your ride, or starting a flame war.

No hard feelings

At any rate, my "embarassing" Subie was much more fun to thrash on back rocky, dirt roads than either of the Benzes. Neither was a "rally machine"

gatorblue92 · #24 07-06-2006, 10:28 PM

i would keep both... i dont have the heart to use my 240D as a daily driver so the wife and i are looking at a new c-class for a daily driver since we have both fallen in love with the mechanics of MB... the w123 is such a classic i want to keep it and enjoy it forever and not run it into the ground with daily use

i know call me crazy

KylePavao · #25 07-06-2006, 10:41 PM

Thats how you PRESERVE these cars! You gotta keep em running. That way you are forced to fix all the little irking rattles and problems that you wouldn't really care about if you only took her out once in awhile.

These cars were meant to be DRIVEN

GlennCraven · #26 07-06-2006, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoungBenz

i used to be a diehard ford fan but recently turned away from them.

I come from a "broken" family -- mostly Ford guys, but my uncle worked for GM and buys nothing else. ... And then there's my dad, the black sheep of the family, who bought his first daily-driver MB from a salvage yard (a 1958 220S) and disgraced the entire family by going foreign.

I had one Ford -- a Bronco II, circa 1989 -- and while it wasn't a total heap, it had more than its share of problems in my opinion. By age 12 (granted, in U.S. car years that might as well be 100) and 120K miles it had finally puked the motor. But I was barely able to keep it on the road anyway, having broken the driveshaft twice (I had it off-road maybe three times in its life, and never "seriously"), both doorhandles broken either from the inside or from out, both power windows defunct, the stereo croaked three times (twice while still under warranty and the last a week after warranty; never replaced) and very early in its life it had some sort of catastrophic electrical failure that it had to be towed in and fixed under warranty.

Wow, and I considered that "not a total heap?" ... Still, it was 12 years of regular family use.

I've been no more content with the other American stuff we've owned, though. That includes a 1986 Chrysler LeBaron (probably the most reliable because it had very few power options to break) and a 1998 Buick Regal (fit-and-finish was gawdawful; numerous interior items like seat levers and accessory buttons/knobs just uncermoniously broke or fell off).

Our Volkswagens have been the most reliable.

I put -- I kid you not -- 80,000 miles in one year on a 1984 Rabbit. I also got it sideswiped by a Kansas City Metro bus, and lost the hood at 65 mph on I-70 between Topeka and Manhattan. ... Darned thing just would not die, even after I wanted it to so I could justify replacing it. ... Ended up humming along (and I do mean "humming) with that scarred driver's side from the bus wreck and a silver hood off a '78 on the '84 car, and when I sold it (at 160K miles) to a salvage yard for $100 the clerk at the front desk immediately called his girlfriend and said, "You know we've been looking for a parts car for your Rabbit? Well, I just found a car that we'll part *your* car into."

Wow.

Our 2003 Jetta TDI has given us 120,000 virtually trouble-free miles since delivery in Washington, D.C., on 03/03/03, and it's done it at about 49.5 mpg highway.

Even the 1986 Cabriolet we had, the top and trunk of which leaked like a seive and which had terminal failure of almost every accessory (A/C, heat, etc.), still zipped around like a little bandit once I had all the vacuum leaks traced down.

phrosty · #27 07-06-2006, 10:46 PM

I fought it tooth and nail - the purchase of my first import automobile.
I was, thanks to my being reared in a blue-collar American family, a die-hard domestic car owner. After having owned my Honda for several years now, though, I can honestly say that I won't have anything else.

I appreciate the design... the quality of workmanship... the level of artisanship that went into the production of most classic cars. Older Mercedes, in particular, were works of art on wheels. Consider the times, though - back then, folks wanted showy automobiles and the industry could still push out hunks of gas-guzzling steel encased in chrome at a price most families could afford. Now, folks (Americans, really) still want hunks of gas-guzzling steel... but they want them to come equipped with ninth-row seating, four THX-certified DVD players and surround sound... all while able to climb the nearest mountain in time to get little Johnny to his soccer practice. But, I digress....

My main concerns when purchasing my Honda were reliability and affordability. I've friends (non-tuners) who sang praises of their Accords and Civics. One of my friends, in particular, has a grandmother who owns an '82 Accord with - as of 7/4/06 - 412,800 miles on the original engine and transmission. Hand to God.

Now, that's not as impressive as some of the older diesel Benz models' record-breaking mileage. And it's true that Hondas aren't usually as pretty to look at. That's not what they're built for, though.

I'm an accountant - and I allow my career to influence some of my daily decisions. So far, that practice has helped save me plenty of money. If you're like me, and want a car that won't require a bunch of nitpicky repairs... if you want a car that'll last you as long as you need it... if you want a car that won't depreciate by 1/3 its value when you drive it off the lot (but won't require you to take out a second mortgage)... get a Honda.

You'll be happy.

Before I'm berated for posting such a reply on this forum - consider this:
Right now, look for a car that will allow you to put back money instead of requiring you to hand it over to your parts dealer or mechanic. Take that extra money, when it's grown enough, and purchase a Benz for a "hobby" car. At least, that way you won't have to worry whether or not you'll be able to make it to work on time (or if you'll even be able to start your car at all

)

KylePavao · #28 07-06-2006, 10:58 PM

Honda's are good. Lots of people in my family have them...

but man the old Benzes have soul. Nothing like seeing the silver star on the hood. The way they seemed to think of everything...always pretty easy to service, everything was thought out well.

OTOH, the one downfall of Japanese cars IMO, at least the ones in our family, has been the ease of servicability by the owners. My father is like many of the oldtimers here, worked on a lot of cars in his life. He loves Hondas, their reliability. It came time to replace the brakes a month ago, and all he said to me was "Man..that 240D you had was the easiest brake job I've done in my life"

I agree, some of the parts are expensive, but most haven't been more so than those on my Subaru. But the expensive parts are made up by the ease of serviciability, and how well thought out things are. All I point to is, how many mid 90's Japanese cars had four wheel disc brakes standard? How many have brake pads that can be changed without removal of the caliper? How many have simply made wear sensors that tell you when your front pads are worn?

I know my dad's fully loaded 2002 Accord V6 had none of these except the disc brakes, and those were a PITA to change compared to any of the Benzes we've had.

There always seems to be a reason why Benz did things they way they did back then...

Because they were run be engineers and artists, not accountants

And I am a Business Major, I should talk

#29 07-06-2006, 11:07 PM

It just depends what you want, I don't own any "real" cars and I have no interest in owning any. I do have a beater jeep for use in the snow and to carry stuff, but that's the least reliable thing I own. My wife and I both use our diesel W123s as daily drivers (I put about 35K miles per year on mine). Even my motorcycle is an 83. If your old benz is not reliable it's because it is not being maintained properly. I'm currently in route from CO to VT in my 300D (just turned over 336K miles) and I am much more confident in that car than any new ricer I could buy today. The downside is I spend more on my old benz than I would on a new ricer, but who cares. My car will still be in service when the ricer is junk (I know that's redundant). Personally, I can't imagine driving something that should have a "Maytag" badge on the back.

iNeon · #30 07-06-2006, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

The downside is I spend more on my old benz than I would on a new ricer, but who cares.

That says it right there-- I know these are great cars, *mine* is the greatest of all heh heh But I think that maybe the reason there are so many of these cars on the road still is because of owners with passion for machines--

It is not because they require so little service that people love them, it is the heft and light steering, the feeling of riding on rails and the chromed hood ornament steeped in a tradition of innovation and excellence-- They are actually worth repairing, yes, but at some point, *I* am going to have to give up on it-- it just plain costs too much to buy 2 gallons of synthetic oil, a 12 dollar filter, a 4 dollar fuel filter and another 10 dollar fuel filter every 3 months-- an "oil change" just snowballs on these cars-- the neon gets a 3 dollar fram and 4.x quarts of havoline sae30 every 7500 miles.

The cost difference is about 25 dollars PER SERVICE, coupled with the fact that it gets 10mpg more on the cheaper unleaded....

But of course, it was gifted to me new, so I didn't have to pay the $14,000 entrance fee, either-- that colors my view muchly. I really do think the Mercedes has been cheaper to own, I am just mad that I don't have the abilities to rebuild my front-end, so it's parked--

25 cents a mile in the Benz including all upgrades/repairs/insurance/purchase-- that ain't terrible, but it's cost me a lot of time!

View Poll Results: What should I do?
Sell the ford.....Great Plan!	25	83.33%
You're crazy.....resell the Wagon!	5	16.67%
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