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  #1  
Old 08-05-2006, 11:26 PM
mespe's Avatar
benzbonz
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Added Propane Injection to my SD YeeeHaaa

Well I spent 15 minutes mod'ing my 1984 300SD by adding propane injection. I could tell immediately the increase in acclereation, eventhough my primary filter was somewhat clogged. I can't wait until I "test" it again tomorrow.

The best part is I added the entire setup for 'free' from parts that I had in my garage. I can snap some pictures tomorrow if anyone is interested.

Basically, 3/8 copper tubing going into the hole that I drilled in the air cleaner cover, JB welded into place. The other end goes to the flex line of a old Propane tank from a gas grill (with regulator) The tank is positioned behind the passenger seat. I can easily turn on the propane with my right hand, and I can most definetly fell the ooomph from the propane. Now I gotta figure out how they do burnouts in diesels, because when the car is idling and you turn on the propane, it makes a god awful noise (clank clank) and stalls, but with the increase airflow at 1500+ RPMs she sounds nice.

Maybve I gotta power brake the car up to 1500 RPMs to burn rubber. wonder how long the tank will last, as it's nearly empty at time of install. Ain't no 4 cylinder gasser gonna cut me off anymore so there.

Hey why aren't the Smilies working???

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  #2  
Old 08-05-2006, 11:33 PM
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Concerns about setup

Hi Im new to this forum, I have a concern about your setup, since you are adding the propane before the turbocharger, what would happen if the propane were to ignite in the turbocharger once it got hot enough.

I was planning to do something similar but add the propane after the turbo, which would also have a beneficial cooling effect on the hot compressed air, which would make it more dense and then give you more power.
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2006, 12:14 AM
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Sword of Damocles
 
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Propane needs a boost controlled flow.
You'll make a big mess if the system, as is now, back fires for some reason.

The engine need to be seeing excess air before adding extra fuel of any kind.
Best bet is a post turbo set up and metered wet fuel injection.

Google = Propane/diesel, etc....lots of sites listed to check the systems for sale.



.
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2006, 02:27 AM
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benzbonz
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icefire View Post
Hi Im new to this forum, I have a concern about your setup, since you are adding the propane before the turbocharger, what would happen if the propane were to ignite in the turbocharger once it got hot enough.
Well I guess I would be replacing a turbo and/or engine. But I believe that the turbo will not get "hot enough" to ignite the propane.
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2006, 02:29 AM
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benzbonz
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkveuro View Post
Google = Propane/diesel, etc....lots of sites listed to check the systems for sale.



.
I googled diesel/propane and the least expensive setup cost almost as much as I payed for the car.

Did I mention that I'm burning WVO, but I didn't bother to google WVO/Propane.
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2006, 02:35 AM
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Thumbs up

Yeah... that stock T3 doesn't move enough air to have the demand for LP (more fuel). The air charge becomes too hot with it.

If you want to get half serious, get a larger turbo on there along with an intercooler so you can move much cooler air into the motor. Once you have an excessive of air, throw some propane on it.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2006, 02:39 AM
ForcedInduction
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How do you control the propane? Do you just open the tank or is there a switch and valve? What line pressure and nozzle orifice do you use (In other words, How do you meter the amount of LPG added?)?

Pictures are a must!
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2006, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mespe View Post
.................................... least expensive setup cost almost as much as I payed for the car.....................
Power costs money, how much ya got ?



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  #9  
Old 08-06-2006, 07:22 AM
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A little knowledge is a danerous thing.
At the very least install an electrical solenoid to turn the whole system off and on. You only need propane at WOT. You could wire it to the kickdown switch, at least that way it would flow gas only at WOT. Also install a system shutoff for the driver, so he can deactivate the system at will.
Do I even need to address the obvious safety issues with your present, hand-controlled system? ( driver distraction, loose fuel rolling around in the car, no control in the event of an accident....)
You need to do a little research to determine the proper size orifice. Orifice size, combined with the pressure in the system will determine propane flow. The sound you hear when you add propane at idle is similar to preignition in a gas engine--it will destroy the engine. When you hear that, you have too much propane.
Using the BBQ grille regulator, you must add propane before the turbo. The BBQ regulator is set at 11" water column or a little under 1/2 psi. You can inject propane at 0.5 psi into a turbo-charged air stream with a pressure higher than 0.5 psi. Adding it pre-turbo also promotes a more uniform mixture.

You have demonstrated that propane works, now add the required system to make it work safely and not be detrimental to engine longevity.
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2006, 09:30 AM
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benzbonz
 
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I do think that I would like a "hands-free" propane injection system. But I also wanted to see what kind of performance increase I would achieve.

From what I can remember last night during my initial test run, the increased performance amounted to about the same as when the turbo spools up, sorta like adding a turbo I guess.

Some technical specs,,,

PSI .5 lbs (Thanks MS Fowler)
Orifice around 5/16 (or whatever the ID of 3/8 flexible copper tubing is.
HP increase around 10-15 (estimate)
Flashpoint of LPG > cigarette cherry (so LPG shouldn't catch fire in the hot turbo)

I guess my next steps are to increase PSI, decrease orifice (I wonder if I could just crip the end of the copper tubing) add electronic valve hooked up to the throttle and a defeat switch to turn off the system when not in use, which will probably be only when the car is first started up.
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2006, 05:06 PM
1985 300SD Sady's Avatar
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[QUOTE=mespe;1237887]
PSI .5 lbs (Thanks MS Fowler)
Orifice around 5/16 (or whatever the ID of 3/8 flexible copper tubing is.
HP increase around 10-15 (estimate)
Flashpoint of LPG > about 900*F or 480* C /QUOTE]

If you get a needle vavle, or an acetylene regulator, you could read and modify your pressure. And get rid of the BBQ regulator...

Wouldnt the orifice be located inside of the regulator?

You cant make anywhere near accurate HP estimates without more testing...

I found the flashpoint of propane... but because the inside of our engines regularly exceed 4500*F you can see that it would not be too hard to mess things up.

I would take Hit Mans advise and intercool with a bigger turbo before messing with propane... you wouldnt want to blow you or your engine up.
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  #12  
Old 08-10-2006, 05:57 PM
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Propane Injection

http://sirnik.batcave.net/propane.jpg

On the left is a electrial wiring diagram, and on the left is a diagram of how the valves oule lay out inthe car.

I was thinking about propane Injection a while ago. This is what i came up with. all the parts are avalable on e-bay. I was planning on useing an acetaline regulator and a pressure switch for an oil pressure light. you gan buy the pressure switches at the parts store. i just taped it into the line coming off the back of the intake maniforld, the same line i used to install my boost gauge.

I haven't hooked up the propane yet... after i get my intercooler installed. i have all the parts just no time.
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  #13  
Old 08-20-2006, 11:30 PM
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benzbonz
 
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Very nice setup SirNik, gonna have to get me some valves, no doubt.

Orifice size is still in testing stage, I will keep crimping the line until I don't get any pre-ignition.

Marty
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  #14  
Old 08-21-2006, 02:29 AM
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Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just find a 380se or a 420sel or something if you want more power? Plus....its stock with more power, thus 100% safer (and probably cheaper than buying loads of propane....) Thats my thought....
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