Interesting Turbo mod...... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

PanzerSD · #1 08-22-2006, 12:11 AM

Sorry, I don't have any photos or documentation to back up my "theory"

I thought for a while today, about people who put Propane, and nitrous and water injection on their diesels. What if an attempt was made to add compressed air or CO2 to the equasion? on the EXHAUST side of the turbo.

compressed gas, whether it be CO2, nitrogen, or simply compressed air plumbed into the exhaust side of the turbo, to boost the exhaust pressure to alow the turbo to spool faster and sooner at the push of a button, of course, taking into account the amount of fuel at a certain RPM.

I guess a pseudo-example would be, if you're climbing a hill aand you have the pedal to the floor and the engine is struggling, you could introduce some compressed air to the turbocharger to make it spin faster than the current exhaust pressure is allowing it to thus increasing the amount of air being given to the engine!

any thoughts? or am I full of it?

dkveuro · #2 08-22-2006, 12:19 AM

http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/pre-compressed-air_20supercharger

Partial quote...."
Folks, Check the patent literature. US patents 2,965,083 and 2,983,267 (circa 1961, and issued to General Motors!) describe an "accumulator supercharger" which uses a venturi effect device for forced induction and a storage tank of compressed air to feed it. The tank is recharged between bursts. The rig for my car is half-fitted and will be commissioned in the next couple of weeks....."
DoctorNemo, Mar 09 2004

I used to think that some kind of accumulator to store BOV pressure, then reintroduced as throttle opened again would be a maintenence free system.
This would be for stick shift equipped vehicles...not much point on an automatic.

.

.

#3 08-22-2006, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got_The_Benz

am I full of it?

It's a good idea but a 3L engine moves ALOT of air. It would be impractical except for drag races. My freakin computer decided to lock-up after I made a lengthy post with lots of math, which I do not feel like retyping. Here is the jyst of what I had:

(Correct me if I'm wrong) A 20 gallon tank at 120psi has enough volume to feed a 1.5L engine 15psi of regulated boost/air for 10 seconds.

A better option would be to use nitrous off the line until you are at/near full boost.

I DO like that auxilliary gas-turbine engine powered turbo and 250cc engine powered supercharger.

PanzerSD · #4 08-22-2006, 12:49 AM

Oh well it was worth a shot

PanzerSD · #5 08-22-2006, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkveuro

http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/pre-compressed-air_20supercharger

Partial quote...."
Folks, Check the patent literature. US patents 2,965,083 and 2,983,267 (circa 1961, and issued to General Motors!) describe an "accumulator supercharger" which uses a venturi effect device for forced induction and a storage tank of compressed air to feed it. The tank is recharged between bursts. The rig for my car is half-fitted and will be commissioned in the next couple of weeks....."
DoctorNemo, Mar 09 2004

I used to think that some kind of accumulator to store BOV pressure, then reintroduced as throttle opened again would be a maintenence free system.
This would be for stick shift equipped vehicles...not much point on an automatic.

.

.

Yeah, I checked out that site, and I agree with most of those guys, that it would be COMPLETELY impractacal (for me at least) to have a system in place that would do that and not be obtrusive......

pawoSD · #6 08-22-2006, 12:57 AM

My solution to making my diesel blazingly fast would be to find a MB 6.0 liter 12cylinder engine/tranny, and fit it into the body of my car.

Then I would simply add a computerized speaker that played OM617 sounds at idle. And would leave the diesel badging on the trunk. Voila, a "diesel" 126 that can tear up tires.

Lostyankee · #7 08-22-2006, 12:58 AM

Down shift.

fastpakr · #8 08-22-2006, 12:59 AM

If I'm not losing my mind, rally racing turbo cars often use fuel injected directly into the turbo impeller to keep the system spooled up between shifts somehow?

#9 08-22-2006, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastpakr

If I'm not losing my mind, rally racing turbo cars often use fuel injected directly into the turbo impeller to keep the system spooled up between shifts somehow?

That's an Anti-Lag System. http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/bangbang.html

fastpakr · #10 08-22-2006, 01:25 AM

Thanks - great article. Nice to know a little more about how the system is configured.

ConnClark · #11 08-22-2006, 11:30 AM

Apparently car companies and turbo makers do to as some are considering adding electric motors to turbos to reduce spool time, so I think an antilag pressure system has some merrit.

I think the pressure tank charge should be introduced to the intake manifold though. This has several advantages over introducing it to the exhaust side of the turbo. For one the pressure tank would be smaller to get the same effect. This is because you have fewer energy transfers(from gas to trubine to compressor to intake charge). The other advantage is a gas expanding cools, thus cooling the intake charge. Since boost helps build boost a short 1/2 second pulse would be sufficient to give the turbo a kick in the pants.

You would need a computer system or a brain to know when to push the button to open the pressure tank valve. If you press it right off the line the compressor won't be able to contain the pressure because it isn't spooled up enough. You would have to wait until some boost built then hit it. You could also use a sensor on the waste gate(or your brain) to open the valve to recharge the pressure tank at peak boost.

resago · #12 08-22-2006, 12:30 PM

couldn't you do it with some checkvalves, pressure switch and solenoids?

switch on throttle to monitor idle condition.
pressure switch on intake (post turbo).
checkvalve on hose between tank and intake(post turbo) for pressurizing tank.

solinoid on bypass hose from tank to intake (bypass the checkvalve). for dumping into the intake.

run solinoid release wire inline with idle switch and pressure switch so it opens when off idle and pressure is below a certain level.

this is not the BEST way, but for 3 minutes of brainstorming, its not too bad huh?

Rashakor · #13 08-22-2006, 01:24 PM

adding compressed air to an intake is what a supercharger does.
The problem here comes from the english language that chose to name a intake compressor (Kompressor!!! anyone?) a supercharger.

I remember reading about a production car in europe with turbo and kompressor. the supercharger was used as the lag compensator and low rpm booster, while the turbo was the device for the high rpm range. What you are trying to do in not much different from that set up.

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