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  #1  
Old 08-27-2006, 09:08 PM
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280 ce Vs 300TD engine

I am thinking about replacing the gas engine in my aging 280ce (220,000 miles) with a new or near-new diesel 300D or 300TD. I have read these engines have a reputation for running 400,000 or more miles or more and can run biodesiel with little or no modification. At this piont I am considering restoring the car and investing in home-brew biodesiel.

Does anyone know if the 300D or the 300TD engine fit into a 280CE?
Has anyone done this before with a 280CE?
Are there any spatial considerations in the engine compartment to accomodate a possible addition of a Turbo Charger in the future?

Thanks to all who have experience with this. I really want to keep this car and invest in green fuels while polluting less and reducing the dependancy on foreign oil.

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  #2  
Old 08-27-2006, 11:11 PM
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Anything is possible; a 617 will fit into your 280 CE. But I’d recommend putting a good M110 back into your coupe.
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2006, 11:31 PM
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Sounds like a good idea, but I wouldn't mind having a gas w123.

If you have a naturally aspirated 617 diesel engine, you can't install a turbocharger unless internal engine modifications are made.
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  #4  
Old 08-27-2006, 11:36 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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you really cant retrofit the turbo at all. there are just too many differences. best to sell it off and buy a decent turob motor if that is what you want.

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #5  
Old 08-28-2006, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbzkid View Post
Sounds like a good idea, but I wouldn't mind having a gas w123.

If you have a naturally aspirated 617 diesel engine, you can't install a turbocharger unless internal engine modifications are made.

I wouldn't mind a gas W123 right now either, since even premium is a good 30-35 cents per gallon cheaper than diesel around here currently....Regular is only $2.64!!!!! Diesel is over $3.10!
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2006, 12:32 AM
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280ce vs 300td

Thank you all for your thoughts...

I really love the love of the coupe and could not switch to a 4 door just to move to desiel. The car is the perfect size and I could not see driving a 300SD or something..too big.

The gas engine does not smoke a lot however there is oil coming up into the air cleaner and oil coming from the tailpipe which I assume is a sign of a rebuild. I would even pay a little more to get the body style I like with the engine that is fuel efficient, green and will last 20+ years. This is why I am considering a biodesiel.

Would it be fair to assume with my investment of ~$5000 on a new engine and running biodesiel which is supposted to be better for your engine with more lucricity and solvents that the engine could last for 20+ years?

Because, that looks a lot cheaper than a new car to me. Especially if I decide to brew my own biodesiel at 70c per gallon. It also helps the planet and I love the idea of a home grown energy solution.

All comments are welcome,

Thanks
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2006, 12:38 AM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
I wouldn't mind a gas W123 right now either, since even premium is a good 30-35 cents per gallon cheaper than diesel around here currently....Regular is only $2.64!!!!! Diesel is over $3.10!
No kidding, I'd almost think about finding a 560 right now. Diesel is topping $3.45 and premium is *only* $3.30.
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2006, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jante View Post
I have read these engines have a reputation for running 400,000 or more miles or more and can run biodesiel with little or no modification.
You must have read that on eBay

The car you envision was sold in the US as the 300CD. Are there non-US features in your 280CE that you want to keep? If not then sell it and get a 300CD turbodiesel. Much easier than swapping a normally aspirated Diesel into the 280CE then turbocharging it.

Sixto
93 300SD
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2006, 07:50 PM
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280ce vs 300td

What non-us features are on the car I do not know. I do know that the passenger mirror is not installed and that may be non-us.

I may not know as much about these models as I had thought.
Does the 280ce with the m110 engine have more or less horsepower then the diesel? I know the m110 is a 6 cyl and the desiel is a five right? This would mean the gas m110 has more hp correct?

What are the differences between the 80-81 300CD and the 280CE?
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  #10  
Old 08-28-2006, 08:15 PM
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The M110 is a more powerful engine than the OM617, turbo or not. Even in detuned US specification the 280CE will outperform any 300CD. Maybe a 5-speed 300CD turbo will run with a 280CE but all 300CDs sold in the US have AT. I don't think the 300CD was offered outside the US.

If you enjoy your M110 then keep it. Otherwise the OM617 is much easier to maintain and will go a longer way on less maintenance and fuel before it needs a rebuild. Put it this way, a car typically outlasts an M110, an OM617 typically outlasts the car.

My earlier point is that if you have a Euro spec 280CE then it might be worth installing a Diesel engine. If you have a US spec 280CE then sell it and buy an 82-85 300CD turbo. Why waste your time with a conversion?

Sixto
93 300SD
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  #11  
Old 08-28-2006, 08:22 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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actually the 110 engine is about as durable as a diesel imho. and in eruo trim very quick and responsive.

and a euro model may have a higher rear end ratio.

the euro motor though does require premium to be happy.

but they are such a sweet durable motor i wouldnt swap one for a 617 unless it was shot. and i love the 617 engine too.

good luck with your decision.

btw a right side mirror from a 240 is manual and will bolt right on your car.

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #12  
Old 08-28-2006, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
actually the 110 engine is about as durable as a diesel imho. and in eruo trim very quick and responsive.

and a euro model may have a higher rear end ratio.

the euro motor though does require premium to be happy.

but they are such a sweet durable motor i wouldnt swap one for a 617 unless it was shot. and i love the 617 engine too.

good luck with your decision.

btw a right side mirror from a 240 is manual and will bolt right on your car.

tom w
I second that sentiment.

I had a 1985 Euro 280SEL, as one of my first cars. It had 230K before it was sold. My father had a 280SEL, W116 Euro, that had clocked 348K miles before he sold it to somebody else. Nothing had ever been opened up.

An M110, the fuel injected version, will rival a diesel for longevity. In the W123 in Euro form (185 hp), 60 mph comes in only 8 - 9 seconds. In US form (only around 130 hp), around 11 seconds.

I always got 20 - 21 mpg in my 280. I'd imagine the W123 version would get even better mileage (Euro of course). Economy rivaling the NA 617 engine.

I was younger, and less knowledgeable about these Euro's when I put 87 octane into them. Only thing I noticed was upon a cold start, it would be lean for the first 5 minutes. Never any pinging or anything even on low test, though.
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  #13  
Old 08-28-2006, 09:15 PM
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I don't get it

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
I wouldn't mind a gas W123 right now either, since even premium is a good 30-35 cents per gallon cheaper than diesel around here currently...Regular is only $2.64!!!!! Diesel is over $3.10!

No kidding, I'd almost think about finding a 560 right now. Diesel is topping $3.45 and premium is *only* $3.30.
For the life of me, I don't understand the intelligence of the afore mentioned comparison. Also, wait till next week when gas spikes to $3.79 like it is in Chicago, I'd be happy to pay $3.10 for diesel.

A real life diesel car vs. an EPA test vehicle, irrespective of highway or city use or god knows how much idling, they typical get ±3 MPG all the time, and a typical gas engine capable of the same highway MPG of the afore mentioned diesel gets 5-15 MPG city in real life driving like they do all the time vs. EPA bulls#$t numbers, in the end, the diesel will always, ALWAYS use less fuel over the same number of miles. ALWAYS.

There isn't a gas engine made that doesn't exponentially reduce its fuel efficiency the moment its left to idle. Couple this with the typically less volatile swings in diesel fuel prices and there isn't a comparable gas engine made that will cost you less to operate than a diesel. It would take a near doubling of the cost of diesel to compensate for the inefficiency of gasoline engines. (pa-lease, don't waste my time or yours typing back how a 1.2L gas will be thriftier than a V-10 diesel truck engine. I'm considering apples to apples comparisons, not raisins to watermelons.)

After 23 years of operating the two side by side I have accumulated enough empirical data to choke a horse. I have bought nearly twice as much gasoline as diesel fuel for the same number of miles driven by similar displacement vehicles.

Now for the butt burner.

2000 Mercedes E200 CDI. 52 MPG highway, 45 City. These are the numbers my English friend Ray gets from his 210 chassis E Class, and he has no trouble at all doing 100 MPH when he wants to. UK gasoline has surpassed $9 gallon a few weeks back and we think we have it bad.

WHY CAN'T WE HAVE THESE KINDS OF VEHICLES IN THE US?
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========
THE WHITE FLEET
2016 GLE300d 4-MATIC 38K BROWN!
2012 S350 Bluetec==94k WHITE

2007 ML320 CDI==166K WHITE (FOR SALE)

Under new management:
2005 E320 CDI--140K--WHITE
1995 E300-Diesel-133.5K--THE CAR IS BLUE
1986 300SL--97.5K (European) AND WHITE. Back in Europe!
1991 190E 2.3-73K California Perfect.--WHITE
1995 E320-Wagon-159K--WHITE (recently scrapped)
1987 300D Turbo-213K--WHITE
1987 190D 2.5 Turbo-288K--WHITE

Last edited by markg612; 08-28-2006 at 09:24 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2006, 09:19 PM
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Very Well Put.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
The M110 is a more powerful engine than the OM617, turbo or not. Even in detuned US specification the 280CE will outperform any 300CD. Maybe a 5-speed 300CD turbo will run with a 280CE but all 300CDs sold in the US have AT. I don't think the 300CD was offered outside the US.

If you enjoy your M110 then keep it. Otherwise the OM617 is much easier to maintain and will go a longer way on less maintenance and fuel before it needs a rebuild. Put it this way, a car typically outlasts an M110, an OM617 typically outlasts the car.

My earlier point is that if you have a Euro spec 280CE then it might be worth installing a Diesel engine. If you have a US spec 280CE then sell it and buy an 82-85 300CD turbo. Why waste your time with a conversion?

Sixto
93 300SD
Very well stated!

I would agree as well!

There sure seems to be a preponderance of the 300CD in California in my non-scinencetific survey. (this is similar to a crude observation on the number of times I twisted my head to look at one as it was driven by, especially in the bay area.) My wife would flip our 300SL for one in heartbeat.

Good luck.
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Mark
========
THE WHITE FLEET
2016 GLE300d 4-MATIC 38K BROWN!
2012 S350 Bluetec==94k WHITE

2007 ML320 CDI==166K WHITE (FOR SALE)

Under new management:
2005 E320 CDI--140K--WHITE
1995 E300-Diesel-133.5K--THE CAR IS BLUE
1986 300SL--97.5K (European) AND WHITE. Back in Europe!
1991 190E 2.3-73K California Perfect.--WHITE
1995 E320-Wagon-159K--WHITE (recently scrapped)
1987 300D Turbo-213K--WHITE
1987 190D 2.5 Turbo-288K--WHITE
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  #15  
Old 08-28-2006, 09:25 PM
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Thumbs up

Either buy a diesel or keep the M110, the M110 is a great motor minus its oil use. The Euro one REALLY scoots.

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