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  #16  
Old 04-18-2001, 01:53 PM
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Chris p.,

It appears as though you have a tough decision to make. In deference to Mr. Haney, I was not "blatting bad press", but attempting to help you educate yourself with regard to the history of this engine. BTW, mbz.org is a great and thoughtfully educational site that is maintained by a fellow MB owner (no affiliation).

Though I am a non-owner of a OM603.97 engined vehicle, I personally know of 3 individuals (they do not participate in this forum) that have one of these vehicles and ALL of them have experienced the aforementioned issues with this engine. One of them chose to replace the engine (his expense), while the others got rid of them altogether. Best of luck in your decision.

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'04 ML500 - 53k, Inspiration Edition, Desert Silver
'11 Audi A4 Avant - Brilliant Black
'87 300SDL sold
'99 C280 Sport sold
'85 190E 2.3 sold
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2001, 02:52 PM
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Chris,

Did the two people you know get rid of their cars as is?..and therefore take the financial hit,which I assume was tradein value less about 10-12K?....were they the original owners? were they maintained by MB dealers?
This is a starnge problem as there are many cars that never had the problem(mine not included) and have over 200K....
I think there was some design problem with this engine but it seem to be contingent on some external factors...that I don;t know....but the good new is My MB technition as well as the regional MB rep for my area say they have never seen this happen twice....at this point I have the MB dealer document carefully my maintenence as noone can say my car was not maintained correctly

Warren
1992 300SD 113K
Columbus Ohio
turner@greif.com
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  #18  
Old 04-18-2001, 04:46 PM
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Warren,

I know for a fact that two of them had them religiously maintained by the dealer. Not sure of the other. Those that chose to get rid of them traded them in as-is.
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'04 ML500 - 53k, Inspiration Edition, Desert Silver
'11 Audi A4 Avant - Brilliant Black
'87 300SDL sold
'99 C280 Sport sold
'85 190E 2.3 sold
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  #19  
Old 04-18-2001, 04:55 PM
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Thats a drag Chris...because I gotta tell you unless my car had a zillion miles on it MB had better offer me some help if my engine ever has problems again...because no excuse can be made by them as to my maintenance...
In regard to your friends who traded in....I can only imagine how little they were offered...but I guess they figured just take the 10-12K hit and cut their losses?
Thats a shame because after owning a 1985 300Sd and a 1992 300D I can say this car I presently own is probably the best driving/riding car I have even driven and also probably the most civilized diesel(although the 1992 300D was a close second)
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  #20  
Old 04-19-2001, 07:42 AM
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Location: Victoria, Minnesota USA
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I really love this 91 sdl and I have a hard time believing that this engine is doomed to a premature death. I am going to bring it to my mechanic and see if he can detect any problems at least we now have an idea what to look at. It really runs well burns no oil and is smooth and quick for a diesel car of this size.
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91 350 SDL
91 300 E
85 300 D (sold)
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  #21  
Old 04-19-2001, 08:16 AM
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Chris,

You may never have a problem,I have heard many people never do....and for the 3.5 diesel I agree its a very civilized auto....light years ahead in power and refinement over my old 1985 300SD......buy I have a buddy that just bought a 98 E300 tubodiesel and I hear its even more incredible
I am sure you will throughly enjoy your new vehicle


Warren
1992 300SD 113K
Columbus Ohio
turner@greif.com
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  #22  
Old 04-19-2001, 08:24 AM
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Location: Victoria, Minnesota USA
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I don't think that I can afford a ride like that. The other thing about a car that new is that they are too civilized I don't want a car with charcoal air filters and all that. I have been thinking that I would like too keep this one for quite a while. I would really like to put the European headlights in it.
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91 350 SDL
91 300 E
85 300 D (sold)
79 300 CD (sold)
91 300 CE
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  #23  
Old 04-19-2001, 09:36 AM
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Location: PA
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Chris & Warren:

I have both a 94 S350 and a 99 E300. I love both cars, but the S350 is a very expensive thing to repair. Just recently my a/c went out and it looks like I'll have to replace the stuff in the dash.

Also, the chain guides broke and the chain beat a hole in the valve cover. I'll post a pic if you wish.

Oh and my self closer system goes away for a while sometimes, but removing the fuse seems to solve the problem for a month or two.

Now, having said that, it is a wonderful car to drive on the highway. Very very comfortable. Drove from Pittsburgh to Iowa straight on one tank.

My 99 E300 is a very different vehicle. Has different bells/whistles. Very quick and very quiet. I have about 69K on it in about 2.5 yrs. It has been hard to align, but now I'm used to it.

I replaced an 84 300D (with 328K) and an 84 300SD (with 192K) with these 2 cars. I don't know if I'll get the same longevity, but have my fingers crossed.

Good luck!
Neil.

99 E300D
94 S350D
83 500SEC Euro
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  #24  
Old 04-19-2001, 09:53 AM
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Neil,

I can second what you say about expense on the 140 body...in the two years I have owned the car...it has had replaced...1). Complete engine 2. AC evaporator core 3.Dash climate control push button unit 3. Closing assist pump 4.Alternator...5.Front bushings,control arms and other front end parts...many other small items while the tech was in there and saw items that needed attention
Total repairs costs to date... $22K(90% warranty)The evaporator core was done before by the original owner in 1997 by the way as was the instrument cluster replaced because it shorted out...as I hear was common in the 92-94 models
Its almost a joke at the dealer where I go because other than a transmission and AC compressor just about everything has been replaced and is now under MB parts and labor warranty. I have had two TENSE discussions with the regional MB rep...and his reply is "these 140's are VERY VERY expensive to repair and as they got older things will get worse".....that statement makes me wonder what will happen when the cars are worth in the 8-10K range and those repairs are no longer financially practical considering the cars value at the time
The car is so complicated I would be afraid to let anyone but the best independent shop(which I don't think there is one in my area) or the MB dealer

Warren
1992 300SD 113K
Columbus Ohio
turner@greif.com
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  #25  
Old 04-19-2001, 10:24 AM
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Future value is definitely a consideration.

Perhaps I'll trade it in instead of getting the a/c fixed.

I'll have to think about it....
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  #26  
Old 06-10-2002, 08:46 PM
jwii350sdl
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I can say this the 350 sdl has problems I have it. However, this engine can be nursed. You will have to bite the bullet at some point, but there are certain things you can do. Some were fabulous, but more than an unacceptable number were lemons. The original problem was not just the weak rods. The original problem was related to poor quality control with the heads at the foundry. There was a small crack at the water jacket that was not repairable because it could not be reached to reweld. The rods (not being stout enough) exacerbated the problem because in some case liquid not steam coolant would get into the cylinder ...vapors compress liquids don't. this would cause an extremely high compression ratio that would in turn bend the rod thus causing an elipitical wear in the cylinder thus causing more oil consumption due to blow by. As long as you replace the coolant and flush the coolant system annually(oil gets in it due to this) also replace the hoses the oil tends to have fuel in it and eats the hoses from the inside out, repalce oil every 3,000. ensure that there is alwasy plenty of coolant because you will be losing some in the compression chambers and watch the crancase oil. If it is black good if it looks like a coffee milkshake you need to bite the bullet and replace the engine... do not rebuild. The cracks in the head, due to the temperature cycling ,tend to get worse thus causing coolant to get into the crank. A tell tale sign if this engine has this problem is if you see a minor oil slick or oil residue in the coolant reservoir . Many MB techs originally fixed this problem thinking it was a blown or defective head gasket. I have seen these defective heads magnafluxed and people still miss this crack. This engine, since 1995 out of MB is solid. Better coolant channels, better rods and a better match on Rockwell hardness between Cylinder, ring and piston. MB spent millions redesigning this engine, a rebuilder is working with a block and cylinder wall that are also part of the equation and original equipment the new blocks meet different specs. $4000 to buy plus $5000 for a new engine if your nice to your dealer and $1000-$1500 for pull and installation with a reasonable local mechanic and you are back in business. The turbo is your only wildcard and if a turbo is driven correctly it won't wear out. Always idle the car for 45-60 seconds before cutting of the engine. Don't rev it it can get upto extremely high RPM's and then if you shut it off it it has no oil flow and is still spinning fast. One of the most important rule of the old oild cooled turbos that noone ever talks about. I would buy it because with proper records you can break even on the money versus resale and one helluva car to boot. I hope this llong diatribe helps and doesn't bore the pros in this forum. Good Luck.
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  #27  
Old 06-11-2002, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
$4000 to buy plus $5000 for a new engine if your nice to your dealer and $1000-$1500 for pull and installation with a reasonable local mechanic and you are back in business.
where did you get these engine prices?....a rebuilt MB 603.971 is $8500.000...evean at a discount you may get one for $7000.00...

$1500 for r/r sounds accurate....and it comes with the 48/50 complete MB warranty good at any dealer

interesting thing I noticed with the new engine(and I have heard others say the same thing)...the new engine is louder than the old one....beefier parts make more noise?

Warren
1992 300SD 142K
Columbus Ohio
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  #28  
Old 06-17-2002, 03:59 PM
jwii350sdl
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Sir, I have seen this engine sold for just over 5,000 if I remeber it was 5032. I my self have paid 6040.00 for this engine with the full warranty as a long block. So, it is not unreasonable if you have a good relationship with your dealer. I have talked with Crowne in Columbus as I lived in Bexley at one time, but I always got better deals from Potter. If you have any questions please let me know. Best Regards.
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  #29  
Old 06-18-2002, 08:10 AM
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For an $8500 list part $5000 is quite a deal....was the engine you bought from a MB dealer?...I have seen some cheaper rebuilds but I was unsure....as for Potter Versus Crown...I tried to buy a car at Potter once adn their prices are rather high..in fact I was so turned off by the bargaining experience I said that once I did get a car I would never go there for service...Crown has done 95% of the work on my car for the past 3 years and I am for the most part satisfied with them....where did you buy your car btw? and who did your engine work?
Crown did mine

Warren
1992 300SD 142K
Columbus Ohio
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  #30  
Old 06-18-2002, 11:10 AM
jwii350sdl
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I purchased my 1995 E320 new from Ross in Dayton. They have also been very pleasant to work with and i find that they are extremely helpful. As for my my 126 I purchased that from the Auto Livery in Ross, Oh. As for the engine I deal with an authorized independent, who was formally with a delaership. The engine is a Mercedes with the full 48/50 warranty. BTW he only charged me 800 for the pull and place of the new motor. However, I also replaced all hoses, radiator, expansion tank, transmission cooling lines and motor mounts. Total bill for this with the new motor $8,160.00 out the door. I have been fortunate enough to find an independent who is authorized to sign my service book. Drives the dealers nuts. This was a long block with the belt on it. It included alt., p/s pump, a/c comp., injection pump and oil in it. This was just done this last month.
I only us MB parts I have found that although many companies are authorized oem aftermarket that MB has tighter quality control. Shoot, I only use MB antifreeze and brake fluid. Oil is negotiable,depending on the mileage and condition of the engine. Pay a little more on average I figure it to be about 20% more. However, when only spending on average 3,000 per year on maintenance I am not worried about $600.00. I save a lot because I do most of my own wrenching. My 126 has 227,000 and it has had this problem I know, since the 70,000 mile mark when it got its first headgasket. Like I said previously, a lot of MB techs thought this was a bad head gasket. I bouught the car with 207,000 on it knowing I would have to go down this road. I just wanted that diesel, because I drive 70,000 per year. I expect to have to buy another engine in 6-8 years. That s cheap in my book.

As for buying a car from one of these dealerships I agree the bargaining experience is rough at Potter's, but i find their service techs and parts people more than fair. I will say I can call every dealer in Oh and they will all have different prices. I find Crowne to be right up there with Dana in Cincinnati. Dana wanted List price $8,074 just for the motor, but they are known for exagerating not only prices , but problems. I would highly recomend that anyone going down this road DO NOT use anything, but an MB engine. Not worth the risk and a great warranty. I hope this helps. I will be honest if you were charged $8,500 for a long block I would be reaming that service manager, because they charged you more than list. If you go there for most of your big work, they should have at least helped you on the engine price. The standing joke when you ask for the engine price from the dealers is this. " Let me guess I only need one guess... a cracked head?" These dealers know that the old engine (first version) is a lemon period. I find it offensive that they feel they should make 30% gross profit on the engine. Alas, not MB of old they are not worried about owner loyalty anymore. I feel that ended in about 1996 now they just want to sell cars. Leasing is the only way most of these people could afford to drive a new MB. If any other questions, let me know. Best Regards

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