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  #1  
Old 09-16-2006, 10:46 AM
muleears's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
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Evans NPG+ coolant and the 124 6cyl.

I am considering changing to the waterless, no pressure Evans coolant. My 124 has a history of cooling system problems: replaced radiator, heater core, pump, etc. The head on the 124 is also sensitive to overheating. Mine has been replaced with a #17. My question is if the boiling point of the evans coolant is 375* F, can't my heat sensitive head be overheated and I wouldn't know? What would stop the temp from rising to, say, 290* if my pump fails? If I'm not watching the guage I wouldn't know. What am I missing here? In my search on this topic, I found where one poster said to purge the system of water by draining, filling with Evans then blocking the radiator so the temp would get high enough to boil off the residual water. Isn't this too hot for my engine?

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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2006, 10:53 AM
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The theory is that the Evans coolant will never boil, and, therefore, you'll never get a point within the engine that gets significantly hotter than the coolant due to the loss of coolant at that location.

But, whether the use of Evans coolant at elevated temperatures on an aluminum head is a wise idea is something for which there is very limited information.

You'll definitely run warmer with Evans installed. It's got about 75% of the heat transfer capability of plain water.

PEH is running the Evans in one or more of his vehicles. Maybe he'll comment on it.
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2006, 09:33 PM
muleears's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
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Someone who has used Evans NPG+

I note from the Evans site that some applications require (or recommend) a different water pump and radiator. Is this the case with mine? How about cold weather protection? I live in SE Virginia. We get a little snow and temps in the single digits at times. I have heard it turns to slush at 10* F is this true? Does it have any effect on cabin heating?

What about coolant improvers like RedLine's Water Wetter? Compatible?

Just things I would like to know before I spend almost $90 on coolant.
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2006, 10:09 PM
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Why would you try something with as many unknowns as this product? Most information I've ever read comes from people reading the retailers website. That's not exactly a good source. That's not even a good source of so called "anecdotal evidence".

If you do decide to convert, which usually means modifying the radiator cap to ensure no pressure buils, what will you do when a hose fails in the parking lot of a Walmart, 500 miles from home on a Sunday morning? Now, you can repair or replace the hose and buy some coolant at Walmart and be on your way. How will you replace the Evans?

If your car is overheating then something is not working corectly. If everything was otherwise in good shape I would opt for a better radiator before I would spend a penny on snake oil.
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:23 PM
dkveuro's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
I am considering changing to the waterless, no pressure Evans coolant.
Evans is NOT a cure for poor performing cooling systems.
It will work fine with a properly operating cooling system.

NOTE: Due to it's 'creep' it is advisable not to use it in older engines without steel shim head gasket....especially FORD's ..older fiber gaskets will usually start weeping if changing to Evan's .
Using BAR'S LEAKS will prevent this happening for a few years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
My 124 has a history of cooling system problems: replaced radiator, heater core, pump, etc. The head on the 124 is also sensitive to overheating. Mine has been replaced with a #17. My question is if the boiling point of the Evan's coolant is 375* F, can't my heat sensitive head be overheated and I wouldn't know?
If you have overheating problems...cure them first...usually the 124 has radiator core plugging and often the one or both of the rad' fans will not be working.
Overheating in the 'drive thro' or after exiting the freeway is sometimes aggravated by the under tray missing.
Check the viscous fan for correct drag when coolant is 200 F.
A good way to check the fan is to let the coolant rise to 200 F and bring the rpm's up to 2000rpm....the fan should get noisy moving more air, if it does not, then it is time for a new viscous hub.


Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
What would stop the temp from rising to, say, 290* if my pump fails? If I'm not watching the guage I wouldn't know. What am I missing here? In my search on this topic, I found where one poster said to purge the system of water by draining, filling with Evans then blocking the radiator so the temp would get high enough to boil off the residual water. Isn't this too hot for my engine?
If the fans are operating correctly there should never be a time where the coolant reaches 230 F.
Pump do not usual fail totally...they leak and sometimes seize.....although you'll usually hear it when it seizes.

When changing to Evan's, it is not possible on a drain down to remove all the old coolant or the water it was flushed with.

Raising the temperature to 280 F will do no harm at all to the engine or it's components. It is to drive out the water, h2o, which if left in the system will deteriorate the performance of the Evan's .....this is done, as you said by covering the radiator ...I usually stall the fan...more effective.

To do any damage to the cylinder head the coolant would need to reach 650 degrees......how do I know ? .......because I took a head to the machine shop to have it straightened.....they gave up at 600 F degrees due to it approaching heat treat temperature.....head was too tough to straighten, even at that temperature.

I run most of my customers VW Vanagon engines on Evan's due to the problems with corrosion.....and the very expensive coolant hose costs.
They run a tad higher temperature of around 5 to 15 degrees but being as the temperature expansion rate of Evan's is lower, the pressure in the system only gets to about 8 psi instead of the usual 12 to 15 psi with 50/50 coolant.



.
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2006, 06:55 AM
muleears's Avatar
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Thumbs up

Thanks folks for the informative replys. When I noted the cooling history of my car I failed to mention that everything is fine now. Rad., pump and fan have all been replaced and function correctly. I just like the idea of less stress on the pump/hoses/rad. etc. I do have a lot of miles on the car (see sig.)

Good point about losing coolant, I guess I would need to carry extra.

If I do convert how can I tell when my coolant has reached 230+ (to drive out residual water)? Leave the rad. cap off and use a thermometer? My guage in the car doesn't go that high (I don't think). How do I stall the fan?

Thanks again
Cal
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2006, 02:57 PM
dkveuro's Avatar
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Here an' there.
Posts: 2,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
...........................
If I do convert how can I tell when my coolant has reached 230+ (to drive out residual water)? Leave the rad. cap off and use a thermometer? My guage in the car doesn't go that high (I don't think). How do I stall the fan?

Thanks again
Cal
To stall the fan....lock/hold one of the blades with a bungy cord or similar and then start the motor and let it idle untill the temp' is maxed out.....with the rad' cap off the coolant bottle, the h20 should vaporize and when there's none left coming out of the bottle, or it stops fuming or bubbling, your done.
An Infra-Red gun is usful here.

To stop the auxillary fans cutting in, disconnect the loom connector to them.

The Evan's 'Instructions' sheet tells you about boiling off the h2o

Your cooling system should last longer with Evan's due to less pressure.
you could carry an extra bottle but if it's filled up and bled correctly this is not required.
Likeyhood of hose failure is much reduced with Evan's , you can run it with a Zero pressure cap if you like, although the smell like waffles is not always welcome, as this is what Evan's coolant smells of at operating temperature.

There is no need for modifications to the cooling system with Evan's NPG+.
It's a pour in fluid.

Expensive at $32.50 a gallon right now....plus shipping etc...It's guaranteed for 100,000 plus miles and with a low pressure or zero pressure cap your system should be maintenence free.

The fluid stops all corrosion, electrolisis, cavitation pitting and on knock sensor equipped engines, will allow the ignition to advance more for exrta power and or economy.

Personally I think the Evan's is too expensive, but with older vehicles it helps when hoses are not available or very expensive...like the Vanagon with it's corrosion problems.


.

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Last edited by dkveuro; 09-17-2006 at 03:10 PM.
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