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  #31  
Old 09-21-2006, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig View Post
Definitely a 70s design, it was introduced in 77, so it was designed in the early 70s.
Thats whats so funny to me. My boy has nailed it! And he's only 12. He still thinks I'm kidding him when I tell him they're from the 80's. He'll say but Dad, just look at the speedometer and the way the vents are round. And look at those square doors, etc., etc. Its funny he picks up on all that. He watches That 70's Show and when he sees a car with similar attributes, he's quick to point it out to me.

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Bill
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  #32  
Old 09-22-2006, 12:46 AM
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What about the VIN?
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  #33  
Old 09-22-2006, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig View Post
Definitely a 70s design, it was introduced in 77, so it was designed in the early 70s.
Older than that actually, it was first introduced in 1975 at an auto show in Europe, I want to say it was the Turin Auto Show, but not quite sure..
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  #34  
Old 09-22-2006, 09:46 AM
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My theory is this:

I'm 37 and a child of the 80s. Chevelles? GTOs? Camaros? Corvettes? Muscle cars in general - who cares? We didn't have them as our dream cars, we had the Mercedes, the BMWs, and the Porsches as our dream cars. And at this point, even if we wanted a muscle car (market way, way overblown), we couldn't afford them anyway, even though my generation is getting some cash right about now. (Personally, I think we'll see the "tanking" of muscle car values simply because those who own them will flood the market when the babyboomer's healthcare needs get too high, and since my generation doesn't care about muscle cars, who are they going to sell them to?)

So what do car guys of the 80s turn to? Our dream cars are the cars we grew up with and loved. We can afford the MBs and BMWs now because they're not price-overblown - yet. MB is the most popular marque becuase they're still very reliable, are very affordable, have a great feel to them, and fulfill our need for dream cars with which we grew up. The cream-of-the-crop w123s, w126s, r107s, and w124s will go up in price - they're my generation of collectibles. But if you really want a collector car over which my generation will salivate in 15 years, it'll be the SEC AMG - a documented one. As soon as I can personally justify the $20k-30k on one, I'm in, and I'll never let it go.
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  #35  
Old 09-22-2006, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by POS View Post
My theory is this:

I'm 37 and a child of the 80s. Chevelles? GTOs? Camaros? Corvettes? Muscle cars in general - who cares? We didn't have them as our dream cars, we had the Mercedes, the BMWs, and the Porsches as our dream cars. And at this point, even if we wanted a muscle car (market way, way overblown), we couldn't afford them anyway, even though my generation is getting some cash right about now. (Personally, I think we'll see the "tanking" of muscle car values simply because those who own them will flood the market when the babyboomer's healthcare needs get too high, and since my generation doesn't care about muscle cars, who are they going to sell them to?)

So what do car guys of the 80s turn to? Our dream cars are the cars we grew up with and loved. We can afford the MBs and BMWs now because they're not price-overblown - yet. MB is the most popular marque becuase they're still very reliable, are very affordable, have a great feel to them, and fulfill our need for dream cars with which we grew up. The cream-of-the-crop w123s, w126s, r107s, and w124s will go up in price - they're my generation of collectibles. But if you really want a collector car over which my generation will salivate in 15 years, it'll be the SEC AMG - a documented one. As soon as I can personally justify the $20k-30k on one, I'm in, and I'll never let it go.

Excellent observation. You are quite right about muscle cars. In the 70's, 80's and even into the early 90's antique cars from the pre war [WWII] era were bringing a princely sum. Now that most of those collectors have passed on the prices have dropped dramatically. And, as those collectors passed, their money was left to family who remembers growing up with the muscle cars. So, with their spare change, they go out and find what they remember.

Cheers,

Bill
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  #36  
Old 09-22-2006, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POS View Post

So what do car guys of the 80s turn to? Our dream cars are the cars we grew up with and loved. We can afford the MBs and BMWs now because they're not price-overblown - yet. MB is the most popular marque becuase they're still very reliable, are very affordable, have a great feel to them, and fulfill our need for dream cars with which we grew up. The cream-of-the-crop w123s, w126s, r107s, and w124s will go up in price - they're my generation of collectibles. But if you really want a collector car over which my generation will salivate in 15 years, it'll be the SEC AMG - a documented one. As soon as I can personally justify the $20k-30k on one, I'm in, and I'll never let it go.
They say a fool and their money soon part. To dump 30K in a car that could be purchaced for $2500 and restored for less than $10K is a waste of money in my opinion. If non tangable items like documentation and low miles are valuable to you by all means throw your money at it. Your buying a car you can't really drive and enjoy because the milage you put on it will substantially impact its value to another buyer. The sheer act of buying it as well adds another owner to its documentation and lowers its value as well.

For the 30K range you could actually but a car that has real collectable value. While the 80's MB's are great cars they are not worth the inflated values that some people are paying for them. Especially for a 123.

The collector car market ebbs and flows a lot (one of the reasons most banks steer clear). If you remember the early 1990's you remember all of those over inflated values for the collector cars. I feel sorry for anyone who buy's a collectable car when the market is trendy as they pay a premium for their cars and are unable to recover it in resale.

Im a big fan of the "if it makes you happy do it" philosophy. But why not take a step back and think about something before you do it as well? While its easy to blow $30K on that "perfect" car that you want might it not be a better financial decision to do a restoration on a car in need? Its cheaper and your helping preserve a vehicle that might have been junked otherwise. Many of the really rare and valuable cars in the collectable market were saved by smart owners that paid virtually nothing for them but recognized what they had in front of them. Anybody can dump a load of cash on a pristine low mileage car.
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  #37  
Old 09-22-2006, 06:19 PM
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Did you notice the wear on the spare tire? Looks line some serious allignment issues. Could also be ball joints and guide rod bearings.
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  #38  
Old 09-22-2006, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pwogaman View Post
Did you notice the wear on the spare tire? Looks line some serious allignment issues. Could also be ball joints and guide rod bearings.
I did see that. Also notice how the seller says "good" spare.

Cheers,

Bill
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  #39  
Old 09-22-2006, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rchase View Post
They say a fool and their money soon part. To dump 30K in a car that could be purchaced for $2500 and restored for less than $10K is a waste of money in my opinion. If non tangable items like documentation and low miles are valuable to you by all means throw your money at it. Your buying a car you can't really drive and enjoy because the milage you put on it will substantially impact its value to another buyer. The sheer act of buying it as well adds another owner to its documentation and lowers its value as well.

For the 30K range you could actually but a car that has real collectable value. While the 80's MB's are great cars they are not worth the inflated values that some people are paying for them. Especially for a 123.

The collector car market ebbs and flows a lot (one of the reasons most banks steer clear). If you remember the early 1990's you remember all of those over inflated values for the collector cars. I feel sorry for anyone who buy's a collectable car when the market is trendy as they pay a premium for their cars and are unable to recover it in resale.

Im a big fan of the "if it makes you happy do it" philosophy. But why not take a step back and think about something before you do it as well? While its easy to blow $30K on that "perfect" car that you want might it not be a better financial decision to do a restoration on a car in need? Its cheaper and your helping preserve a vehicle that might have been junked otherwise. Many of the really rare and valuable cars in the collectable market were saved by smart owners that paid virtually nothing for them but recognized what they had in front of them. Anybody can dump a load of cash on a pristine low mileage car.
A fully documented 560SEC AMG is a collecter car and an exotic in every sense of the word. Only a handfull were made new, some costing darn near $200k, 1980's dollars. Today try to find a 560SEC AMG Hammer period, let along a nice one for $30k. They are bottomed out, the ones that do come up for sale are usualy in different countries and you will pay for a nice one. I have heard of them trading for just over $50k, for the cream of the crop.


A black on black 560SEC AMG Hammer with is one of my dream cars, along with a Ferrari 355, and a Zonda.
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  #40  
Old 09-22-2006, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rchase View Post
The collector car market ebbs and flows a lot (one of the reasons most banks steer clear). If you remember the early 1990's you remember all of those over inflated values for the collector cars. I feel sorry for anyone who buy's a collectable car when the market is trendy as they pay a premium for their cars and are unable to recover it in resale.
If you are trying to make money (or even protect your investment) stay away from any collector cars. Anyone who needs a bank to finance a collector car has no business even considering one. Anyone who "buy's a collectable car when the market is trendy" deserves to lose money. I agree, if you buy a low mileage car for a premium price you can't really drive it without losing most of it's value.

Personally, I wouldn't want to own a garage queen either, but there are folks out there who just want to own a good example of an original car and are willing to pay for it. I'm glad there are folks who have the interest and resources to preserve some of these cars.
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  #41  
Old 09-23-2006, 12:13 AM
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I'd be more than happy to have a detailed to death low mileage garage queen W126. For me half the fun would be just having something that nice and perfect.

One doesn't need to drive a car on a daily basis to enjoy it, quite the opposite actualy. Get to much of anything and it becomes old.
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  #42  
Old 09-23-2006, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by HerbPhillips View Post
Having just sold a 1984 300D for $18,600...

The market is not cooling off.

I totally agree!

Especially Hot market for those survivors which have been properly serviced and documented and range from premium condition, ultra low mileage to Good condition, moderate mileage.

However, the price that the Mercedes in that superior condition can command is not at all representative of the same value proposition of those which are in average condition or below.

The trend I am seeing is the discriminating buyer is increasingly willing to reach beyond the Average condition vehicle to "buy up" in quality and in effect, reducing demand for the Average vehicles. In the meantime, that submarket will remain soft until prices are more correlated with the value proposition.

Further, I believe the excitement concerning conversion to WVO has met up with the greasecar reallity of lots of hard work, low reliability and the realization that it is probably more trouble than it is worth...has run its course on demand and is now nominal. However, I do not write the movement off! I think there is a strong opportunity for a second momentum as the early adopters prove and improve the technology, form a cohesive user community, and communicate lessons learned...

Currently, they buy the beaters, clunkers and average vehicles to use as a test-bed and will eventually progress up the quality ladder for better platforms to retrofit as the technology is improved, becomes more accepted, and demand increases.
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  #43  
Old 09-23-2006, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by HerbPhillips View Post
Having just sold a 1984 300D for $18,600...

The market is not cooling off.

damn that's a nice car!
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  #44  
Old 09-23-2006, 04:03 AM
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Yes it is real purty!!!

I paid $19700 for my brand new 240D in 1982...
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  #45  
Old 09-23-2006, 07:24 AM
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I think the odds are that the 123 will go up in value as the baby boomers are retiring and with the interest of the WVO crowd. If the EPA says OK no more WVO in cars and we are going to have stiff fines for people caught then you are going to see the bottom drop out. Just my opinion.

Funny about that spare. I've only owned my beater 300TD for about 600 miles and I moved two tires from the fornt to back because of the same wear. I also noticed both of my front springs are cracked at the bottom.

My dream car has always been a 911. I love the sound of that boxer. Always been a VW Beetle nut. Sold a 78 Super Beetle with 23K on it in June. Lost no money, took very little work, and drove it for almost three years putting 6K on it. Mars Red beauty!
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