Engine swap, 617 to ??? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

derherr65 · #1 10-10-2006, 12:19 AM

Just asking out of curiosity, my 216,000 mile plus 617(300CD) should be fine for a few decades by all reports. But what diesel could I swap to for more power, without a computer, if there is such an animal? My guess so far is an '86 603. Also would the engine bolt in, or does it have a different transmission bolt pattern or require custom engine mounts?

sixto · #2 10-10-2006, 02:34 AM

603 requires a computer for emission control (can be disabled) and idle control (possibly can be overridden).

I'm don't know if a 603 will bolt-up to your 722.315 transmission. I don't know if any 603 transmission has a gear drive speedo to work with your gauges.

Sixto
93 300SD

Rashakor · #3 10-10-2006, 09:31 AM

Well if you get the om603 you should transplant the transmission with it.

If you don't want computer you r pretty much stuck into super boosting the 617 you have. Intercooler, beefy IP, Variable vane turbo... should take you to 250lbft (enough to surprise more than a ricer out there).

We need to pool our collective minds to design a crossflow head for the OM617.

vstech · #4 10-10-2006, 09:50 AM

they have massive weight, and are a bit larger than our 617's but they are not computer controlled, and they do have more HP and Tourque than the 617... I bet one could be made to fit into a 81 and up SD with some firewall mods... better keep the transmission too, and this would sure test the durability of the MB rearend... aught to upgrade the tires with this setup, otherwise they won't last long... SMOKIN!
John

derherr65 · #5 10-10-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashakor

We need to pool our collective minds to design a crossflow head for the OM617.

A 617 with a iron crossflow head would be just about ideal wouldn't it? Especially if you could use all the stock parts and just add the one crossover tube. I am seriously considering the variable vane turbo. Full boost, even at stock levels, from off idle to redline alone would make an impressive difference in a 617.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

aught to upgrade the tires with this setup, otherwise they won't last long... SMOKIN! John

Think of the tires as a torque limiter. You can have a 700ftlb engine and keep the stock axle/transmission happy, as long as you don't get traction. But if those tires ever do grab... SNAP!!!

Rashakor · #6 10-10-2006, 10:53 AM

yep! i prefer changing tires from time to time than having to replace an entire rear axle. Flex discs could alo be a very recurrent maintenance item in this set up...

I think to problem with a truck diesel engine would be height more than width or length of the engine bay. My 116 engine bay is longer and wider than my bosses Duramax but this one is a full foot taller!

Remember that a W116 has had 6.9 liter v8 all iron engines...

bgkast · #7 10-10-2006, 01:38 PM

Drop this in. :fork_off:

http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/pts/216899595.html

derherr65 · #8 10-10-2006, 03:19 PM

Now I'm no diesel expert, though I play on on TV, but that looks to be a semi engine. 300HP, 1200ftlbs torque, and weighing about 3500lbs... am I close? That might require a little more modification than I'm looking for.

Rashakor · #9 10-10-2006, 03:23 PM

Dat ist ein Truck engine... wicked!!!

BTW: Allison=Semi

gsxr · #10 10-10-2006, 03:27 PM

You can shoehorn a 603 engine in there... one of the Finns did that in a green 123 (there's videos of it around here somewhere). Or maybe it was a 606, either way, it's possible if you're willing to expend the effort. If you just want more power, intercool the existing 617 and have the pump tweaked by Myna Diesel.

The W124/603 combo has a 722.3xx tranny with a gear drive speedo. Sadly, only the V8 engines in the W124 had electronic speedos... this makes it awful when changing gear ratios, or dealing with a wobbly needle that refuses to go away even with a new, properly routed cable.

bgkast · #11 10-10-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derherr65

Now I'm no diesel expert, though I play on on TV, but that looks to be a semi engine. 300HP, 1200ftlbs torque, and weighing about 3500lbs... am I close? That might require a little more modification than I'm looking for.

Just add stiffer springs to the front!

derherr65 · #12 10-10-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

If you just want more power, intercool the existing 617 and have the pump tweaked by Myna Diesel.

I was thinking about an intercooler, a variable vane turbo at stock or only very slighly higher pressure, and then probably quitting with about 180-200HP and full boost from off idle to 5000rpm. Should be a great daily driver with suprising acceleration.

gsxr · #13 10-10-2006, 03:50 PM

You can get 180-200hp without a VVT, and it will be far easier... I don't know of anyone who's gotten an aftermarket VVT setup installed & working well on a MB diesel (yet). Remember, to get past about 150hp on the 617, the injection pump will need to take a vacation to Finland for a few weeks...

derherr65 · #14 10-10-2006, 04:23 PM

I want a VVT for it's ability to make boost throughout the rpm range. You know, little turbo = no HP, big turbo = no bottom end.
I had heard the stock pump was good to 200-225HP.

gsxr · #15 10-10-2006, 04:29 PM

The problem with VVT is that you need to control it. How do you plan to do that? The factory VVT systems are computer controlled. Also, who said the stock pump was good for 200hp? No way...! AFAIK, once you get past 20-25% power gain, it won't idle anymore.

Myna Diesel replaces the 5.5mm pump elements with 7mm elements and calibrates it so the engine will still idle. Once they do their magic to it, the sky is the limit... pretty sure the Finns have gotten 300-400hp from the 617. (I know they have gotten 450hp from a 603 and over 500hp from a 606...!)