CDI E cars and non-07 road diesel - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

greasybenz · #31 10-20-2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR.DIESEL

That cover is darn important.
It channels air over the turbo housing and forces the heat down the firewall and out the bottom of the car.

If you drive the car without it, you can get turbo overheat codes and
it can actually cause the paint on the hood to burn. Thats why it has
the little grabber scoop in it.

I see problems with this and those custom dryer-pipe intake people.

DR.D

P.s.- The front plate frame covers up the pointy snout pretty good.
I would recommend it to all.

Then why does my moms powerstroke not have any engine cover or hood pad for that matter? I guess its just because its american made but if you were to pop the hood of the powerstroke the turbo is ontop of the engine exposed and about 2-3inches away from the hood

greasybenz · #32 10-20-2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR.DIESEL

Bio-diesel still has by-products of combustion. The ash has to be accounted for as well. The ash after trap regeneration never leaves the Trap. After so many miles, the trap will become plugged and need to be replaced. The studies of how Bio-diesel will do in this situation and as well as lubricating the high pressure pump at 300 bar and injectors at 2000 bar are not complete.
If you are willing risk your warranty on a $50k car to prove an enviromental
point, be my guest. I would suggest waiting a little while and letting
DCX do the testing on their engines and dollar first.

Otherwise have at it.

DR.D

Well the same can be said for ULSD then. ULSD creates more ash and particles then biodiesel does, so should we not run ULSD?? Should we just run it on water??

come on now

Im not trying to change your mind about the biodiesel use but to say that it will plug the emission systems is just ridiculous since ULSD creates more emission particles and crap then biodiesel.

Secondly im already "risking" a warranty on a new diesel. The passat, VW only allows B5 because of the unknown quality of the biodiesel in the US. As most homebrewers dont actually have the materials to make biodiesel to ASTM specs. BUT thats not to say that good quality biodiesel will ruin the engine. And i run quality ASTM B100 in it.

This has been the hot topic/debate on the TDI club forum. But so far no one has yet proven that good quality biodiesel has done damage to TDI's. Weve only had plenty of threads of TDI's blowing an engine or wrecking a fuel pump with the cause being NON-high quality biodiesl being used. Usually it was biodiesel still containing methanol/lye or wasnt fully reacted. causing the TDI to break.

DR.DIESEL · #33 10-20-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

Then why does my moms powerstroke not have any engine cover or hood pad for that matter? I guess its just because its american made but if you were to pop the hood of the powerstroke the turbo is ontop of the engine exposed and about 2-3inches away from the hood

Wow, are we feeling confrontational today? I don't know why Ford does what
they do. This was a MB topic about the new OM642 engine.

Quote:

because of the unknown quality of the biodiesel in the US. As most homebrewers dont actually have the materials to make biodiesel to ASTM specs.

If you don't know what is in it or how well it is refined, How can you say it can't have any harmfull effects? Have you ever had to fix a lack of power
complaint on a MB CDI engine running pure biodiesel only to find the Particulate Trap clogged? I can understand that your Mom's car does this and your Dad's truck does that. But again. We are talking about the new
BLUETEC engines and not a Cummins or VW TDI.

I used B99 in my 76 240D. It ran great. Smelled good. However, it would
crop dust the freeway with BLACK smoke just like regular diesel fuel.
I had a E300D that would blow BLACK smoke under boost using B99.

Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it can't happen.

DR.D

probear · #34 10-20-2006, 11:39 AM

Black smoke from B99?? I've been running B100 all summer and there is a major difference in the smoke levels from both my 99F-350 PSD and my 87 SDL. The smoke on acceleration is more of a haze than a black cloud. Even when running at about B50 levels, the smoke is more haze. Only when I get mostly (80%+) dino diesel do either smoke black.

Are you sure that your supplier is giving you B99?

BTW, reading up on articles about using Magnesol instead of water washing, it seems to make obtaining the ATSM standard very easy with home brew. I'm still researching that for more clarification.

greasybenz · #35 10-20-2006, 11:44 AM

interesting, i have not had a single cloud of black smoke from B100. Never! only white smoke. The passat under boost on ULSD will blow black smoke, when on bio it will blow white smoke in smaller quantaties under boost. When you saw the black smoke was it at night? blowing into someones headlights? if so you could easily confuse the white smoke for regular old black smoke.

Now im not doubting that bio could blow out black smoke but in my experiance with all the diesels in my family running biodiesel. None of them have blown black smoke when on B100 only white.

"If you don't know what is in it or how well it is refined, How can you say it can't have any harmfull effects? "

Let me straighten that out, im saying that its the reason why it VW, MB, or any diesel engine manufacturer limits the amount of biodiesel that goes in. If you did a little more reading you would find out that in order to run biodiesel properly (from a commercial retailer) you should ask for the latest ASTM test sheets. If they cant provide you with any then its not worth the risk. When i bought the drums of biodiesel, i asked the supplier to email me the latest ASTM specs and gladly did so.

biodiesel.org has the ASTM specs and you can just compare the results.

Read this: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=110004&highlight=biodiesel+pd+astm

It should clarify.

"Have you ever had to fix a lack of power
complaint on a MB CDI engine running pure biodiesel only to find the Particulate Trap clogged?"

Have you? these cars have just hit the market not enough of these cars have even sold to show that biodiesel does damage. And the tables can be turned my way as well in this.

look what im trying to say is that biodiesel SHOULD NOT do any harm to the traps as it doesnt create nearly as many emission particles as ULSD does. So therfore i dont see how biodiesel could possibly harm the emission systems if its a cleaner fuel all together then ULSD.

Ill do some more researching on this as time goes on. If bluetec is available in germany then ill do some reading on what they say about biodiesel in bluetec vehicles.

Just like the discussions weve been having in the TDIclub, biodiesel is allowed in germany up to 100% (B100) because they have set standards to the quality of the bio. Unlike the US as we are still in its youth stage of this whole alternative fuels we are limited to 5% because we arent required to make biodiesel to ASTM specs. So you have to check yourself.

Hatterasguy · #36 10-20-2006, 12:28 PM

If its that important for you to know buy one and run B100 in it. Report back to the forum every 10k or so miles on how its going.

Personaly the idea of running some home brew through a a $60k car that will void the warranty on a few thousand bucks worth of emissions equipment sounds like a darn good idea.

If your so hard up for funds that you can't afford $2.50 for regular diesel you have no business buying a $60k E class.

DieselAddict · #37 10-20-2006, 01:23 PM

He wasn't talking about running homebrew biodiesel in it, he was talking about ASTM-certified biodiesel. If the quality of the fuel can be assured, I see no problem running biodiesel in any car, even if the car costs half a million. Biodiesel is definitely a cleaner fuel than ULSD (both in the way it's made and how it burns) and if it's properly made and the weather is not too cold for it to gell, I don't see how it could cause problems. In fact I'd expect the emission equipment to last longer on biodiesel than on ULSD.

DR.DIESEL · #38 10-20-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Have you? these cars have just hit the market not enough of these cars have even sold to show that biodiesel does damage. And the tables can be turned my way as well in this.

Current CDI E-classes have been out since 2004 here in Washington.
We have had several with failed High pressure pumps, injectors,
O2 sensors (Bio diesel compatible?), and clogged particulate traps.
All Bluetec does is add 2 more cats and a De-nox trap.

All of these cars were making Biodiesel statements with their bumperstickers
and plate frames. Which doesn't help their warranty cases.

The B99 I have been using is from Soypower. It is pure and I have seen
It come out of the tanker.
If I run my engine to WOT and lift to shift, it pukes BLACK smoke like a diesel would.
Same with my E300d.
On start-up there is white smoke which is normal.
I am not stupid about night and headlights.
Maybe you guys get some whiz bang super BD that burns better.
The stuff that I use meets current ASTM specs.

We can argue about fuel until the cows come home over this.
My point is.
1. I like and use Biodiesel in my older tech engines.
2. B99 has caused failures in current gen CDI engines here.
3. LSD or USLD has not.
4. The new BLUETEC has more S#!@ to break on it over the CDI.
5. I work on these cars every day. If you buy one and break it, I will have to charge you if there is Biofuel. All parts go to Montvale for testing.
6. BD in Europe is strictly controlled. Here it is a free for all with BurgerKing
oil to pure soy being cooked up. I have pulled French Fry parts out of
Fuel tank strainers and had to explain to owners that is bad.
7. People who have mechanical failures when using alt fuels have tended to deny responsibilty. This has been a issue for us already.
8. I am sure when the standards / regulations are up to snuff in the US, it will all be fine and we will all use BD.

Now pass the peace pipe.

DR.D

DieselAddict · #39 10-20-2006, 04:08 PM

I didn't know that CDI's had particulate traps. I thought only 2007 and later cars will have that, hence the need for ULSD. Or are you talking about trap oxidizers, the device which MB diesels have had since the mid 80's? Or is this the same thing?

riethoven · #40 10-20-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR.DIESEL

Current CDI E-classes have been out since 2004 here in Washington.
We have had several with failed High pressure pumps, injectors,
O2 sensors (Bio diesel compatible?), and clogged particulate traps.
All Bluetec does is add 2 more cats and a De-nox trap.

All of these cars were making Biodiesel statements with their bumperstickers
and plate frames. Which doesn't help their warranty cases.

6. BD in Europe is strictly controlled. Here it is a free for all with BurgerKing
oil to pure soy being cooked up. I have pulled French Fry parts out of
Fuel tank strainers and had to explain to owners that is bad.

8. I am sure when the standards / regulations are up to snuff in the US, it will all be fine and we will all use BD.

Now pass the peace pipe.

DR.D

That french fry parts line is priceless. Maybe they are pumping it right from the grease tank into their car.

It is great to have real world experience on the new stuff related to us with the old stuff. I understand the point of biodiesel being cleaner vs. what MB says. But MB isn't about to start warrantying components and labor because someone wants to use biodiesel. because maybe they couldn't tell the difference between ASTM bio and bad homebrew once it has gone through the engine. You also have to admit the chance that someone is home brewing for their new MB has got to be small, but it is still possible.

DR.DIESEL · #41 10-20-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

I didn't know that CDI's had particulate traps. I thought only 2007 and later cars will have that, hence the need for ULSD. Or are you talking about trap oxidizers, the device which MB diesels have had since the mid 80's? Or is this the same thing?

It is the same thing. Just newer and improved. Trap and Catalist all in one.

DR.D

BenzDieselTuner · #42 10-20-2006, 06:07 PM

here in SWFLA they just recently started selling ULSD at high-end gas staions, Shells, and BP's, while the cheapo stations have only the "illegal for 2007" kind.......i myself run on Sams Club Soybean Salad Oil, or WVO, when i get a load of it.......