Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-26-2006, 06:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 279
220d generator brushes

I'm suspecting bad brushes on my 220d generator... looking for help/tips on brush replacement for this model. It isn't obvious to me how to replace the brushes looking at the generator. Note that this model has the voltage regulator separate from the generator and is not like the w123/w126 alternator where brush replacement is part of the voltage regulator.

Please reply with any tips/suggestions if you've done this before...

__________________
1985 MBZ 300DT
1969 MBZ 220d
1984 MBZ 300TDT
1981 VW Vanagon
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-27-2006, 12:40 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,291
it is a simple job. first take the generator off the car. there will be a band around the end where the brushes are located. this keeps dirt out of them. remove the band. remove the screws securing the brush wire. pry the clip away from the end of the brush and install the new brushes in the slot and secure the screws holding the wires.

on my 74 bavaria the brushes on the starter were soldered in. it might be soldered in your gen too. but if it is it isnt hard to solder the new wires on. but if you dont have the skill or the soldering iron you can prob take it somewhere and have that part done.

i dont think i have done a mb gen of that era but they are all very very similar.

good luck

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-27-2006, 02:11 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NE Okla
Posts: 1,104
This seems a little strange to me, as my 1968 220D originally had an alternator. It lost a diode or two at one point, so I stole the generator off of the 190Db and kept on driving the 220D. Now that generator sounds a lot like what you are talking about, but it was not orig equipment for the 1968. Brushes for the generator were cheap and fairly easy to obtain back in the 80's, and that is why I made the swap.

One interesting feature on the MB generators is that the brushes have a travel limiter so the brushes don't just keep wearing down till the springs contact the commutator. You completely loose charging capability, but once it happens you will always know what is going on! Some of these springs are pretty stout, so I usually pry them up and tie them off or use a part of a tooth pic to keep them from ramming the new brushes too tightly to the commutator while you slip the whole end fixture back over the commutator. You may also have to polarize the generator once it is reassembled, before it is ready to use again.
__________________
1961 190Db retired
1968 220D/8 325,000
1983 300D 164,150
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-27-2006, 08:15 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,291
really? you can just sup a gen for an alt?

you didnt have to change anything else?

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-27-2006, 11:36 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NE Okla
Posts: 1,104
Well I had to do a tiny bit of rigging so the main mount bolt fit correctly, and that the pulleys aligned. Also the regulator for the generator had to be incorporated into the wiring along with the generator; but that was only one connection that was different, I believe. Had an old hardback book that showed the wiring for both the Pontons and the '68 style electrical systems, and it seemed like an easy swap. Turned out it was, after the monster York compressor was out of the way!!

Remember these are Mercedes, the door lock knob on the '61 Ponton and an '85 300D are the same part!!!!!
__________________
1961 190Db retired
1968 220D/8 325,000
1983 300D 164,150
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-27-2006, 03:59 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,291
those door locks were used on avantis and ferraris too!

they were great!

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-27-2006, 04:41 PM
riethoven's Avatar
Conservative Radical
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Eastern Long Island
Posts: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxwaker View Post
I'm suspecting bad brushes on my 220d generator... looking for help/tips on brush replacement for this model. It isn't obvious to me how to replace the brushes looking at the generator. Note that this model has the voltage regulator separate from the generator and is not like the w123/w126 alternator where brush replacement is part of the voltage regulator.

Please reply with any tips/suggestions if you've done this before...
I've had several 60's Alfas and a 1955 220a MB that had Bosch generators on them. IIRC, you just have to take off a metal band that exposes the brushes and they are held in by copper springs. I think the leads were attached with screws, not soldered. Take the old brushes or the entire generator to the local auto electric shop that works on Bosch and hopefully they can match something up for you.

One of the Alfas I had, had a bad starter and they had to order the part (solenoid) from Germany. Well, months later after always parking on a hill so I could roll start, they figured out they had the part the whole time and that Bosch had changed their numbering system a couple of times between when the starter was made, and when I was fixing it.
__________________
Doug

1987 300TD x 3
2005 E320CDI
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-31-2006, 02:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 279
still can't figure this out...

I've attached some photos of the generator... I still can't find the band that holds the brushes. I tried removing the black plastic cover to expose any brushes underneath but found nothing that looked like brush retainers...

Any help?
Attached Thumbnails
220d generator brushes-gen_1.jpg   220d generator brushes-gen_2.jpg  
__________________
1985 MBZ 300DT
1969 MBZ 220d
1984 MBZ 300TDT
1981 VW Vanagon
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-31-2006, 10:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NE Okla
Posts: 1,104
Actually I believe that is an alternator. It is short along the axis of the shaft, with a large diameter. Should still have brushes, but they will be positioned against one of the end faces instead of the outer diameter of a commutator. Unit needs to come apart before you can get to the brushes and the diodes may also be inside. Been too long, but do still have one laying around that could be taken apart. Just don't have digital camera for pic posting.
__________________
1961 190Db retired
1968 220D/8 325,000
1983 300D 164,150
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-31-2006, 10:59 PM
deerefanatic's Avatar
Diesel & John Deere Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sturgis, MI area
Posts: 849
Ya, looks like you have one of the Bosch ALTERNATORS that have the EXTERNAL voltage regulator..........

I think I heard that they can be upgraded to an internal somehow...maybe not......

Good luck......

You could always put a 115 amp AL129x on it! I have a thread on that!
__________________
-Matt

EPA Section 609 Certified MVAC Technician
-----------------
Oil Burner Kartel Member #10

Ahh the smell of Diesel Fuel, it's like coffee in the morning!

My Car:

1982 300SD Turbo Diesel (231,500 miles!) RIP

1984 300SD Turbo Diesel Custom (235,500 mi on driveline.) - On Road!!

www.icsrepair.com

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-31-2006, 11:42 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,291
if you want good advice you have to give us accurate info!

that is most definately an alternator.

much much simpler to change the brushes. the place where the wire plugs in is the brush/ regulator. it is a $33 dollar part for generic, more for bosch. just unplug the wire and remove the screw (i think only one,perhaps there are two) and lift out the brush/ reg combo. put the new unit in and plug the wire back in. once you get where you can reach all the parts it is literally a five minute or ten job.

good luck.

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-01-2006, 11:34 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
the place where the wire plugs in is the brush/ regulator.
Nope, the regulator is on the passenger firewall. Wiring diagram is here: http://mb.braingears.com/114_115_Disk1/program/ETM/54_5_4.pdf. Everything on the car seems to match this diagram from what I can tell.

I guess I assumed this was a generator, not an alternator from the wiring diagram. Funny thing is I have 2 x 220d's with the same alternator and have a 3rd from a junked car... I guess I need to do a bit more research to understand the diff... previously I had assumed that the external regulator _was_ the difference.

The alternator is a Bosch AL64x. The brushes are not easily accessible from what I can tell.

deerefantic - the Al129x will not fit into a W115 220d without major mods to the alternator mounting (different from the W123). Let me know if you think otherwise as I have a spare and would love to do the upgrade.

__________________
1985 MBZ 300DT
1969 MBZ 220d
1984 MBZ 300TDT
1981 VW Vanagon
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page