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  #16  
Old 10-30-2006, 02:14 PM
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Could be you have a bad turbo seal causing reduced turbo performance and blowing oil into the intake manifold. Does the turbo shaft spin freely? It shouldn't freewheel but there should be minimal resistance, barely perceptible raidal play and absolutely no axial play.

On other cars it's not unusual for the turbine housing to glow red after a hard run. If it's smoking I imagine there's an oil leak or it has a coating of inappropriate paint.

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93 300SD

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  #17  
Old 10-30-2006, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monomer View Post
It lacks any sort of power, due to oil getting into the intake, and the fact that it has a restrictive muffler on it. The turbo isnt responding right - it dosnt "spool" until 3k, much later than it should. Exaust manifold and spooling side of the turbo get way hotter than it should be - sometimes even smoking.
I'm lost as to how you're reaching this diagnosis. What's the oil consumption like? Is there blue smoke? If so, under what conditions? The lack of turbo "spooling" sounds an awful lot like low fuel delivery off idle (i.e., needs ALDA adjustment). And let's not forget the 602 is known for timing chain issues... what's your chain stretch? IP timing? Boost pressure? This engine has a computer-controlled, vacuum-operated wastegate... not like the older models. Massive oil consumption & smoking could be turbo seals or a failed head gasket at the timing chain cavity. Do some more investigation, and try the 'search' feature here as well...

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  #18  
Old 10-30-2006, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
I'm lost as to how you're reaching this diagnosis. What's the oil consumption like? Is there blue smoke? If so, under what conditions? The lack of turbo "spooling" sounds an awful lot like low fuel delivery off idle (i.e., needs ALDA adjustment). And let's not forget the 602 is known for timing chain issues... what's your chain stretch? IP timing? Boost pressure? This engine has a computer-controlled, vacuum-operated wastegate... not like the older models. Massive oil consumption & smoking could be turbo seals or a failed head gasket at the timing chain cavity. Do some more investigation, and try the 'search' feature here as well...

Oh man.

It's had a recent head job (at 380k) EGR (now disabeled) is leaking oil and the turbo housing on the exaust side is dis-colored, along with the exaust manafold (but on the drivers side. it's fine.) It gulps fuel, as the two bottles of diesel purge went through in a matter of minutes.

I'm about to get rid of the alda alltogeather, but the intake manafold just dosnt look fun to remove. I have to anyway, to replace the shut-off valve. I have no boost gage, and the timing chain/guides look new. NEVER seen this car smoke

A search yeilded no results, but now that I know what I'm going against, I'll keep looking.
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  #19  
Old 10-30-2006, 06:01 PM
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*sigh*

This is what I mean... on this model, if you disable the EGR, the computer "knows" it and kills all boost pressure. First thing to do is reconnect all the EGR plumbing. (Properly disabling EGR on a computer controlled, vacuum-wastegae 602/603 engine takes a lot more work than just plugging a vacuum line... full details are in other threads.)

What's your 0-60 time, as measured with a stopwatch? Should be 12-13 seconds. I bet you're in the high teens, maybe 20+.

Removing the ALDA would not be the best thing to do, especially on a car that may, at the moment, never create any boost pressure at all. I don't recommend this period, despite other's claims that it's the best thing since sliced bread, cell phones, and pay-at-the-pump.

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  #20  
Old 10-30-2006, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
*sigh*

This is what I mean... on this model, if you disable the EGR, the computer "knows" it and kills all boost pressure. First thing to do is reconnect all the EGR plumbing. (Properly disabling EGR on a computer controlled, vacuum-wastegae 602/603 engine takes a lot more work than just plugging a vacuum line... full details are in other threads.)

What's your 0-60 time, as measured with a stopwatch? Should be 12-13 seconds. I bet you're in the high teens, maybe 20+.

Removing the ALDA would not be the best thing to do, especially on a car that may, at the moment, never create any boost pressure at all. I don't recommend this period, despite other's claims that it's the best thing since sliced bread, cell phones, and pay-at-the-pump.

ahh


it's WELL into the twentys
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  #21  
Old 10-30-2006, 06:17 PM
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oh, is it supposed to have a PCV valve?



it dosnt. it just has a rubber boot, that I put in to replace the broken plastic elbow.
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  #22  
Old 10-30-2006, 07:02 PM
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The rate is pulls fuel through the clear filter at idle is not an indication of fuel consumption. A considerable amount of fuel is returned to the fuel tank. If it sucks two bottles of Diesel Purge in a couple of minutes with the return line going back to the Diesel Purge bottle *and* you don't have billowing smoke, something's very wrong.

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  #23  
Old 10-30-2006, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sixto View Post
The rate is pulls fuel through the clear filter at idle is not an indication of fuel consumption. A considerable amount of fuel is returned to the fuel tank. If it sucks two bottles of Diesel Purge in a couple of minutes with the return line going back to the Diesel Purge bottle *and* you don't have billowing smoke, something's very wrong.

Sixto
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heh; I kinda put the bottle of purge right before the primary filter, no return line.


so much for instructions. Atleast I got a GOOD deal on the purge cans ($7/each)
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  #24  
Old 10-30-2006, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
ALDA... despite other's claims that it's the best thing since sliced bread, cell phones, and pay-at-the-pump.

It is.
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  #25  
Old 10-31-2006, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
On other cars it's not unusual for the turbine housing to glow red after a hard run. If it's smoking I imagine there's an oil leak or it has a coating of inappropriate paint.
Ever seen that C111 video where the turbo and exhaust manifold are glowing a very bright red?
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  #26  
Old 10-31-2006, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 2.5Turbo View Post
Ever seen that C111 video where the turbo and exhaust manifold are glowing a very bright red?



I'm stopping at a muffler shop today, and replacing the junked (gasser) pipe with a straight tube. This should help ALOT. I'm also looking into getting a rebuilt garret t3 turbo to drop in.
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  #27  
Old 11-01-2006, 01:50 PM
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I'm stopping at a muffler shop today, and replacing the junked (gasser) pipe with a straight tube. This should help ALOT. I'm also looking into getting a rebuilt garret t3 turbo to drop in.
Why not make the car run as Mercedes intended, before playing with turbo upgrades? There's more power to be had (~20% or so) with the stock turbo just by turning up the pump, before you start messing with hardware changes.

:fork_off:
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  #28  
Old 11-01-2006, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Why not make the car run as Mercedes intended, before playing with turbo upgrades? There's more power to be had (~20% or so) with the stock turbo just by turning up the pump, before you start messing with hardware changes.

:fork_off:
The muffler is restrictive, and a poor weld job to boot. Turbos (and diesel) dont like restriction in the exaust. No trap oxidizer either.

The Turbo has 400k on it. I'm sure theres something wrong with it, as it wont spool until 3k. I also think the seals are work on the inside (oil seals.) I'm looking for a used one to get for chap, and have a local shop rebuild it (for cheap, also) Wastegate works just fine, it's not the diaphram on the inside of it.

I'm taking the alda off when I do the shutoff valve (the intake dosnt lok fun)
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  #29  
Old 11-01-2006, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Monomer View Post
It runs just fine, purrs even.

It lacks any sort of power, due to oil getting into the intake, and the fact that it has a restrictive muffler on it. The turbo isnt responding right - it dosnt "spool" until 3k, much later than it should. Exaust manifold and spooling side of the turbo get way hotter than it should be - sometimes even smoking.


The car itself has very little rust, and most everything else works on it.
If it is smoking then maybe something is getting on the exhaust manifold and burning?

From reading your posts you were looking to remedy lack of power issues with a valve adjustment vs. the $9K (Ouch!) rebuild. When did it start acting up? Was it gradual or did it happen suddenly?

I am with GSXR as far as staying with what you have and repairing it and removing the EGR the correct way. I did a search and couldn't find anything using 602, EGR, Removal.

Here is the header pipe. http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/mercedesshop/sophio/quote.jsp?clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&cookieid=1WV0HZKX61XN0UXYRU&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&partner=mercedesshop&year=1992&product=H2000-66818&application=000360206 and the center muffler http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/mercedesshop/sophio/quote.jsp?clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&cookieid=1WV0HZKX61XN0UXYRU&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&partner=mercedesshop&year=1992&product=H5000-57324&application=000316530 and the rear muffler http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/mercedesshop/sophio/quote.jsp?clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&cookieid=1WV0HZKX61XN0UXYRU&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&partner=mercedesshop&year=1992&product=H5000-107818&application=000309240 .

But you must also consider that you have alot of miles on the car and other things like injection pump and bottom end could be tired.
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Last edited by riethoven; 11-01-2006 at 02:30 PM.
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  #30  
Old 11-01-2006, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
*sigh*

This is what I mean... on this model, if you disable the EGR, the computer "knows" it and kills all boost pressure. First thing to do is reconnect all the EGR plumbing. (Properly disabling EGR on a computer controlled, vacuum-wastegae 602/603 engine takes a lot more work than just plugging a vacuum line... full details are in other threads.)

What's your 0-60 time, as measured with a stopwatch? Should be 12-13 seconds. I bet you're in the high teens, maybe 20+.

Removing the ALDA would not be the best thing to do, especially on a car that may, at the moment, never create any boost pressure at all. I don't recommend this period, despite other's claims that it's the best thing since sliced bread, cell phones, and pay-at-the-pump.

You've suddenly got me curious. I've got a kit from Brian for disabling the EGR that I was just getting around to installing on my 603. Is there something more to it than that?

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