ULSD Related? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

iNeon · #1 11-06-2006, 01:56 PM

Shlomo and I were traveling down the interstate this morning, had just passed 60 miles on 4 gallons, and he ran out.

Thinking about it, I was astounded that my fuel economy had gone from the normal 24mpg down to *15* mpg on this measure of fuel!!

When the kind tech in the shiny white ML-Class arrived, he poured in the fuel and we had to nurse it to start initially. It just didn't want to catch, but eventually did.

When it did, the primer pump was spewing fuel all over! He said that the dealership has seen a number of old diesel cars come in with leaky IPs, and that they're blaming it on the ULSD fuel.

Just to clairify: My station does NOT have ULSD at their pumps yet, and yesterday and the day before, I had used Chevron that was ULSD.

Is it related or just coincidental? I am one of the few with an original-style primer pump, I'll grab one and install it to see if the leak goes away-- there is no other choice. Do other, more serious leaks come out of that side of the IP?

Wes Bender · #2 11-06-2006, 02:19 PM

I think ULSD is going to blamed for all manner of ills, at least for the immediate future. Whether or not the concern is justified, only time will tell.
We just aren't going to be sure until ULSD has had some track record. I suspect that, at the very least, marginal situations may get pushed over the edge by the switch to ULSD.

In the meantime, I'm continuing to add a little RedLine and a little oil to mine when I fill.

Wes

OldPokey · #3 11-06-2006, 02:37 PM

My TD came complete with a spewing primer pump and two leaks in the fuel lines. It hasn't been run for at least a year and the tank had 2 gallons of heating oil in it. I think the only thing to blame here is age!

F18 · #4 11-06-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldPokey

My TD came complete with a spewing primer pump and two leaks in the fuel lines. It hasn't been run for at least a year and the tank had 2 gallons of heating oil in it. I think the only thing to blame here is age!

I agree.....its too easy to blame the new fuel for the problems we are having with our aging livery of MBs. If we were driving the gas versions of our vehicles we could blame everything on the % of ethanol in gasoline.
I can remember my Dad blaming the poor performance of "no-lead" fuel (unleaded) in his new car in the early 70s when we were transitioning away from leaded gasoline. Today.. it is what it is.....just old and high mileage!

Shorebilly · #5 11-06-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iNeon

Just to clairify: My station does NOT have ULSD at their pumps yet, and yesterday and the day before, I had used Chevron that was ULSD.

Is it related or just coincidental? I am one of the few with an original-style primer pump, I'll grab one and install it to see if the leak goes away-- there is no other choice. Do other, more serious leaks come out of that side of the IP?

As I understand it, ALL highway diesel pumps are mandated to be ULSD as of this past Oct 15th....I asked this question here a little while back....and was told that my Key Lime Green Diesel is the ULSD.....the pumps here in WV are putting out the Lime Green Diesel, but the sinage on the individual pumps still says "unfit for 2007 vehicles".....

And....also, as I understand it....the old style lift pump is the one to have if you intend burning Bio-Diesel......so, I assume that as Bio-Diesel eats up hoses, 'O" rings, and other rubber stuff......and if the new ULSD is doing the same.....then the old style lift pump is the premium one to have!!!

And!!! As I used to live in Alerbamer.....had 2 and later 5 tags....you gotta trust me here.....but if we have ULSD here in the boonies of West by God, then y'all have it down there in 'Bama......Geaux Tigres!!

SB

iNeon · #6 11-06-2006, 07:30 PM

I'm not sure I'm blaming a pink elephant here, guys-- The car never leaked at all before. Magically, after 8 gallons of ULSD fuel it can't be driven because fuel is spewing from the pump.

It seems too coincidental.

F18 · #7 11-06-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iNeon

I'm not sure I'm blaming a pink elephant here, guys-- The car never leaked at all before. Magically, after 8 gallons of ULSD fuel it can't be driven because fuel is spewing from the pump.

It seems too coincidental.

iNeon....I don't think anyone here is questioning whether a change in a fuels formula may have an effect on already aged and deformed O rings, seals and fuel lines
Most of the cars having the problems are 8 to 25 years old and probably should have had the fuel lines, O rings and critical seals replaced years ago.. but they have not......
If all these parts were new and then started leaking with the change to ULSD... then I would say we have a problem! But, I think all we have is a maintenance issue.

#8 11-06-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F18

If all these parts were new and then started leaking with the change to ULSD... then I would say we have a problem! But, I think all we have is a maintenance issue.

Yup, I replaced my IP shortly after the "unofficial" ULSD showed up. At 350K miles, the seals were probably on their last legs and the change in fuel was just the last straw. What can you expect from 20+ year old seals?

iNeon · #9 11-06-2006, 08:37 PM

Well, all that I can add at this juncture is...

How expensive are these 0-rings and gaskets, and can your average froot install them? How expensive is the calibration at the fuel-injection shop going to be after I take the thing apart and the car doesn't run anymore?

Funds are dire at current, and I just don't have money to be rebuilding things on my car because someone decided we should rape the planet just this little bit less-- I'd rather not part a car for some seals and o-rings.

#10 11-06-2006, 08:45 PM

At the moment it sounds like your problem is the primer pump, so I would just replace that and see what happens. Don't go digging around in the IP until you know if you have a problem. The old primer pumps tend to leak regardless of fuel type.

I've been using Power Service with the ULSD, but I don't really know if it's helpful, or necessary.

Shorebilly · #11 11-07-2006, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I've been using Power Service with the ULSD, but I don't really know if it's helpful, or necessary.

Same here....all I know is....so far, so good...

SB

Ara T. · #12 11-07-2006, 05:25 AM

Start with a new 20 dollar primer pump and go from there. It was a major pain in the ass for me to change, too much junk in the way, couldn't swing a large enough wrench. I went the route of the vice grips + every ounce of strength in me

barry123400 · #13 11-07-2006, 11:58 AM

Yes Ara you have to have pretty short wrenches or perhaps some crowfeet for you rachet to get that little sucker of a primer pump easily. One can buy a dollar wrench and cut part of it off for example. Not a high stress situation that usually demands a quality wrench. Also when reinstalling the new one keeps you off the cylindrical area that might deform from application pressure to snug it up. I like cheap practical solutions myself that get the job done. As for Neon I think a study of the best thing to add to our old cars fuel to minumise the impact of the new fuels will be my approach. At this time I suspect it may just land up being something like a small dose of motor oil with each tank. I really do not want to land up having to have a batch of injection pumps resealed eventually.. Who knows for sure yet. I really suspect though that the new fuel ate or shrunk your primer pump seal Neon. Especially if you had not used the primer pump in the last while. I read somewhere that there might not be a sensible additive depending on what is present in the new fuels causing this. It is something in the fuel not something missing I believe. The aromatics are different. But I could have this wrong. Hopefully there is something cheap to add to every tank of fuel if it overcomes the problem. From one description I read somewhere there may be nothing that can be done. The difficulty in getting your car to fire up again alongside the road was of course the then shot primer pump. In a way it is proof there are going to be problems around unfortunatly. Your experience was not really coincidental I believe...Too bad. Yes I also agree that old seals are kind of preconditioned with time and exposure. Changing their exposure is probably not a good thing in general. They may have next to no tollerence for it. But if they were not disturbed may have gone another 20 years. One thing for sure is we are going to find out one way or another.

Hatterasguy · #14 11-07-2006, 12:51 PM

The 82 SD has had no issues with ULSD so far. I upgraded the primer pump to the new style last year when I got the car, everything else looks very old if not original.

Shorebilly · #15 11-10-2006, 08:15 AM

G'mornin',

This may sound stupid, But......did you screw the plunger part of your priming pump back down when y'all were finished??

As I age, I am getting slower, but as I was working on my car yesterday....I remembered this thread, ...it dawned on me that you may not realize that the plunger cap is threaded and should be screwed back to it's closed position.

I have the one on my Benz, and 2 on my tractor (one for IP priming, and one as a cold start aid) and all 3 leak if not screwed back down.....as did most of the ones that I ran into on various ships....

SB