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  #1  
Old 11-07-2006, 10:27 AM
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E300 Turbo Diesel "misfire"

Hello, I am new to this forum as you can see, and to be honest it is a problem with my E300 that has lead me here!

I have a 1997 E300 TD auto with electronic Bosch fuel delivery pump, the car has done 152,000 miles and had reconditioned injectors fitted in May this year. Throughout it's life it has been regularly serviced by Merc dealers.
The car runs very well before it completely warms up to normal running temperature, about 80c. At that temperature it accelerates and pulls well, the problem manifests when taking your foot off the throtle and slowing down. The engine appears to "misfire" and there is a noticeable "wobble" from the engine as the revs drop. When arriving at normal tick over speed the engine again runs smoothly.

With the car stationary you can, when it is at normal running temperature, rev the engine and see and hear this "misfire". Untill the engine is at normal running temperature this does not occur.

The fuel pump has been removed and examined, re calibrated, adjusted by a reputable diesel engineers and this makes no difference. All cylinders are getting the same quantity of fuel. Bosch technical department have been consulted and they can offer no help. The ECU has been replaced and checked. The vehicle shows no faults on diagnostic test equipment! The gearbox and torque converter oil has been changed and so has the gearbox electrical connector housing, there are no faults! There are no leaks in the fuel system, but the problem persists.

It has cost a lot of money so far and I am no nearer now to finding the fault than I was 2 months ago. If there is anyone out there who has any practicle suggestions I would be pleased to hear from them, so would the diesel engineer!

Thanks, John

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  #2  
Old 11-07-2006, 10:38 AM
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Change your fuel lines and all the associative o-rings. And since you'll have the intake off, scrub it and the egr.

A "leak" might not be visable, sounds like it is sucking in air though.
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  #3  
Old 11-07-2006, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSpark View Post
Change your fuel lines and all the associative o-rings. And since you'll have the intake off, scrub it and the egr.

A "leak" might not be visable, sounds like it is sucking in air though.
Thanks for your input, but I did say "
There are no leaks in the fuel system, but the problem persists."
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:31 PM
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If what you are describing occurs from ~1000rpm down to 650 idle this is the IP leaning out the fuel mixture. On mine it is a humm-ma-na, humm-ma-na sound in decreasing pitch.

The above per MBDOC.
E300 TD cuts out Ph 4 <=== MBDOC?

If you had air leaking into the fuel system you would generally be expiriencing hard starts.
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:00 PM
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It appears this is a known (software) issue. Changing the ECU eliminates the problem. My 1999 car does it, too. My father's 1998 car does not. This occurs under coasting (over-run) only and at very low speeds. Some days it's far worse, warm weather and hot engine may be the most noticeable. It feels like the FI pump is "hunting" around and trying to get back to idle (from a 0 fueling status).



Previous discussion: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/151742-occasional-rough-idle-shaking-w210-diesel-1998-99-my.html#post1154112
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uberwgn View Post
It appears this is a known (software) issue. Changing the ECU eliminates the problem. My 1999 car does it, too. My father's 1998 car does not. This occurs under coasting (over-run) only and at very low speeds. Some days it's far worse, warm weather and hot engine may be the most noticeable. It feels like the FI pump is "hunting" around and trying to get back to idle (from a 0 fueling status).

Previous discussion: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=1154112#post1154112
MBDOC originally responded to my post 2 1/2 years ago, I'm curious what was the date of the article you posted? Was it current as of 6 mos ago when you originally posted?

At the price of a new ECU, like you, I'll live with an occasioanal stutter on de-cel.
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Last edited by TMAllison; 11-07-2006 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 11-07-2006, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAllison View Post
MBDOC originally responded to my post 2 1/2 years ago, I'm curious what was the date of the article you posted? Was it current as of 6 mos ago when you originally posted?

At the price of a new ECU, like you, I'll live with an occasioanal stutter on de-cel.


I doubt it. It's likely older than 2.5 years. I still have the issue...will try to find the date.

I have "chipped" software so I'm not keen on giving that up. OTOH, if "we" could get the corrected code downloaded from that revised ECU, we could all have this issue corrected once and for all --- chipped or not
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Old 11-07-2006, 03:32 PM
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Thank you all for your help so far.

This does occur at low revs around 1000 although I'm not sure what "IP" is, do you mean inlet pressure?

There was a time when I did have an air leak and it was very difficult to start, that has been fixed.

I did have the ECU changed, but it made no difference. I note that the article by Stu Ritter refers to 98 or 99 models, mine is 97, would changing the ECU apply to mine?
The problem only occurs under coasting or slowing down when the engine is hot or normal working temperature, about 80c, it appears worse when I am towing a trailer and the engine is even hotter.
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Old 11-07-2006, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfort zone View Post
Thank you all for your help so far.

This does occur at low revs around 1000 although I'm not sure what "IP" is, do you mean inlet pressure?


I did have the ECU changed, but it made no difference. I note that the article by Stu Ritter refers to 98 or 99 models, mine is 97, would changing the ECU apply to mine?
The problem only occurs under coasting or slowing down when the engine is hot or normal working temperature, about 80c, it appears worse when I am towing a trailer and the engine is even hotter.
Comfort, IP = injection pump.

Problem is, we had the turbo in 1998 and 1999 only. Our 1996 and 1997 W210 diesels were not turbocharged.

My problem shows up at the same time: slowing down or coasting at low speeds such as maneuvering about in parking lots.

Don't know if the noted software upgrade applies to UK cars, sorry.
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Old 11-07-2006, 03:53 PM
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IP is injection pump.

I believe what you are expiriencing is the same condition both uberwgn and I have brought up.

The article uberwgn provided was written for the US market and refers to 98/99 only because those were the only years 606.962's (turbo's) were available in the US.

You should be able to open the passenger side compartment (actually, may be drivers side for you as you're driving on the opposite of the road from us) and see the date on your ECU to determine if your new ECU has the updated software.
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:25 PM
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I'll bring this up as a side note. VW TDis can suffer a similar malady. It's been nicknamed "slowdown shudder" and it's like the condition found on these Benzes.

The TDi uses a BOSCH VE 37 rotary FIP. Many folks find they have slowdown shudder after larger nozzles are fitted. This condition can usually be dialed out with the VW VAGCOM tool which permits one to interface with the ECUs around the vehicle. If the problem cannot be eliminated via electronic interface, the cover atop the FIP can be removed and the quantity adjuster physically moved...not for the faint of heart

The ECU senses a "rich" condition (injected quantity too high, out of range for the s/w) and keeps trying to lean things out during over-run and coasting to a stop. It's quite irritating. Like the Benzes, it seems to be worse during warm weather.
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:27 PM
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Thanks uberwgn and TMAllison, you are both thinking along the same lines! It makes sense to me as well now that you have explained the difference in year models.
Can you tell me if this change in the ECU was because of the problem of the "rough idle"? Was it introduced to correct the problem? If it was then logically we (England) should have had it first!
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfort zone View Post
Can you tell me if this change in the ECU was because of the problem of the "rough idle"? Was it introduced to correct the problem? If it was then logically we (England) should have had it first!

I wish I could. I've found no other specific documentation on it and had almost no response when I enquired about it a few months back. I'm afraid asking the main dealer about it is going to result in the traditional "deer in headlights" reaction.

Can you ask your dealer about it? I've never pursued it. A replacement ECU is going to be bonkers cost-wise.
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:50 PM
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Mine did that until I disconnected the egr valve. You may need the solenoid that activates the egr and maybe it is not fully opening. It may need to be cleaned when taking off the intake manifold.

Or do the modification I did and bypass it. Do a search for egr bypass 606 - got it this time.
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  #15  
Old 11-07-2006, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAllison View Post
I'm curious what was the date of the article you posted?
I've checked: May/June 2003 issue of the STAR

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