Timing Chain Questions........

[deerefanatic]

I bought a timing chain kit from DieselGiant. went to install this afternoon and ran into a few things..............

First, no master link........... I have the final link that gets pressed in, but no master link with clip to use while pulling new chain into engine............ where to get one?

Second, there are two fasteners holding the upper chain guide in. I can remove the top bolt just fine, but how on earth does that bottom pin come out?

Finally, the pictorial says to use a chain press and NOT to peen the final link in with two hammers. I don't have a chain press..... I was going to use a large mini-sledge as a back stop (with my dad holding it) and a cold chisel and second hammer to peen over the edges of the pins, just like the rest of the chain.......... Why wouldn't this work?

Sorry for the somewhat basic questions, just need to know.........

Thanks!!

Originally Posted by deerefanatic

First, no master link........... I have the final link that gets pressed in, but no master link with clip to use while pulling new chain into engine............ where to get one?

Finally, the pictorial says to use a chain press and NOT to peen the final link in with two hammers. I don't have a chain press..... I was going to use a large mini-sledge as a back stop (with my dad holding it) and a cold chisel and second hammer to peen over the edges of the pins, just like the rest of the chain.......... Why wouldn't this work?

There is no master link on the original chain, it's one endless chain.

You need to use the press. A hammer will not have enough pressure to crimp it in place and will risk the link falling out.

[deerefanatic]

OK,

I get the point on the timing chain press. I'll try to beg-borrow one from somewhere.......

Yes, I know it's an endless chain, but when feeding the new chain into the engine and removing old chain, you use a master link to temporarily join new and old chain. Then, when old chain is all gone, you press in the final link to secure the new chain together.

[Stevo]

Originally Posted by deerefanatic

Second, there are two fasteners holding the upper chain guide in. I can remove the top bolt just fine, but how on earth does that bottom pin come out?
Thanks!!

the pins for those chain guides have female threads in them that are used too pull them. Spray some brake cleaner down there, you will see. Find a bolt that will thread in (1-2'' long) then using washers stacked up (get a good "bite" of threads before tightening). Drew the pin out increasing the washers every time the bolt "bottoms out" The washers need to have an ID BIGGER than the OD of the pin, of course. Take your time and be sure and get plenty of threads before tightening on each "lift" so you don't strip it out, dont ask how I know

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by deerefanatic

I bought a timing chain kit from DieselGiant. went to install this afternoon and ran into a few things..............

First, no master link........... I have the final link that gets pressed in, but no master link with clip to use while pulling new chain into engine............ where to get one?

You'll search forever for a suitable clip. Personally, I believe that the chain will make one round trip without that final link attached. You're only asking for one revolution of the chain at very minimal speed. If you have any doubts, just force the final link on with a pair of vice grips. Naturally, you'll have to carefully pry it off without bending it........something that it may not care to do.

Originally Posted by deerefanatic

Second, there are two fasteners holding the upper chain guide in. I can remove the top bolt just fine, but how on earth does that bottom pin come out?

As mentioned, you need a puller for the pin, or you can make your own from a suitable bolt (6mm??) and some nuts and washers.

Originally Posted by deerefanatic

Finally, the pictorial says to use a chain press and NOT to peen the final link in with two hammers. I don't have a chain press..... I was going to use a large mini-sledge as a back stop (with my dad holding it) and a cold chisel and second hammer to peen over the edges of the pins, just like the rest of the chain.......... Why wouldn't this work?

This will work. You can peen the pins on the final link without the press, but, you've got to be positive that you've done it properly and that you've suitably mushroomed the heads. Greg (Leathermang) had posted regarding the details of such a procedure in the past. The key to success is a proper backstop.

[leathermang]

Originally Posted by deerefanatic

I was going to use a large mini-sledge as a back stop (with my dad holding it) and a cold chisel and second hammer to peen over the edges of the pins, just like the rest of the chain.......... Why wouldn't this work?
Thanks!!

It is a two person job ...so you have that covered.
The items you mentioned sound perfect for this job....
Except that I would use a sharpened punch instead of a chisel... you are wanting the same effect which is used when locking valve seat inserts into place... your father holds the big hammer only ( as the anvil ) and you hold the punch with one hand and carefully pop it with your hammer. If the surface is large enough compared to your punch end then your first three hits are spaced at 120 degrees apart. Then any other clean hits you can make are great.... There is NO rush. This is not like when a hot rivet is put into a hole and a Blacksmith needs to get it peened and tightened up before it cools off.

For rolling in that chain try taking it to a motorcycle dealer. LOL... of course you need to choose a dealer of motorcycles which still use chains... even though they will not have a double roller chain you can probably find two master links which can be inserted one from each side ... you are only needing one movement through the engine on this pull...Otherwise , check with Grainger in your neighborhood for the extra master link.

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by leathermang

For rolling in that chain try taking it to a motorcycle dealer. LOL... of course you need to choose a dealer of motorcycles which still use chains... even though they will not have a double roller chain you can probably find two master links which can be inserted one from each side ... you are only needing one movement through the engine on this pull...Otherwise , check with Grainger in your neighborhood for the extra master link.

What's your thoughts on rolling through without the final link plate in place?

What's the chance of the link working it's way out of the chain in one slow revolution?

[Carrameow]

I bored out a c clamp with a drill with a hole just big enough so the pin from the master link could pass through. C-Clamps have two press sides--one side is the "flex head" on the screw shaft and the other is the side on the bottom of the C. I drilled a hole in the C part. Then you apply it gently a bit at a time on one pin and a bit at a time on the other pin.
Do this until the master link passes through.
Yes this can be done.
Now you have to peen it correctly.
Howver my peens werent so good. I had a V block to make them in my desk but I couldnt find it for 3 days so in the end yes i did rent the tool.

[Carrameow]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

What's your thoughts on rolling through without the final link plate in place?

What's the chance of the link working it's way out of the chain in one slow revolution?

It shouldnt, because the new master link is pressure fit, isnt it? Mine was. Of course I probably had the only pressure fit one out of a thousand chains with my luck.

[Stevo]

I have just used the new link too pull the chain through but its such a PIA to put it on and take it off again. I got a clip style link for that purpose (p/n 0009970598) which I will use just for pulling the chain through the next time.

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by Carrameow

It shouldnt, because the new master link is pressure fit, isnt it? Mine was. Of course I probably had the only pressure fit one out of a thousand chains with my luck.

Originally Posted by Stevo

I have just used the new link too pull the chain through but its such a PIA to put it on and take it off again. I got a clip style link for that purpose (p/n 0009970598) which I will use just for pulling the chain through the next time.

The question is whether you fellows think you can roll the chain through without the side plate of the new link in place. It's clearly a PITA to get it on.......take it off........and put it back on for the final time.

Will the chain make it through one revolution without the side plate (only the pins and the one side plate........no safety retention)????

[Stevo]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The question is whether you fellows think you can roll the chain through without the side plate of the new link in place. )????

I dono, you try it and let us know

[gregszustak]

I purchased a second master link for a 'temporary' hold. Couldn't get the plate off after I pulled it thru the engine, had to grind it off and use the link that came with the chain.

[79 300sd]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The question is whether you fellows think you can roll the chain through without the side plate of the new link in place. It's clearly a PITA to get it on.......take it off........and put it back on for the final time.

Will the chain make it through one revolution without the side plate (only the pins and the one side plate........no safety retention)????

I've done it without the side plate a couple of times. Worked out fine for me.

[mplafleur]

I've always rolled the new chain in using the new master link. There's no reason to worry about it moving and coming out. It never, ever, budged. In fact, it's hard to find when it comes out the other side. You only know it because it's missing the side plate.