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GRIESL 01-04-2007 05:45 PM

Felt the breeze at the intake!
 
Update: Finally got time after the holidays to get out there and inject some air into the cylinders to see what I'm up against. I didn't even need to hold the engine from turning to feel the wind coming out the intake. The rockers are off, so the valves should be fully seated, right? Perhaps I didn't leave the air going long enough to get it going out the exhaust, but didn't feel or hear any there. I would have thought that the exhaust valves would have burned first, but whatever.

Brian Carlton 01-04-2007 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIESL (Post 1377376)
Update: Finally got time after the holidays to get out there and inject some air into the cylinders to see what I'm up against. I didn't even need to hold the engine from turning to feel the wind coming out the intake. The rockers are off, so the valves should be fully seated, right? Perhaps I didn't leave the air going long enough to get it going out the exhaust, but didn't feel or hear any there. I would have thought that the exhaust valves would have burned first, but whatever.

Good job.

With the rockers removed, all valves are fully closed........unless one of them is burned.

BTW, it's very common to burn an intake valve before an exhaust valve. The intake valve starts with a lash of .004".........it doesn't take much neglect by an owner for this to fall to zero. Once it goes below zero, the valve won't close and it quickly burns.

The exhaust valve starts with .014"........and has a much longer way to go before it's stuck open.

It's time to remove the head and send it to Metric. You won't be disappointed.

GRIESL 01-04-2007 09:43 PM

Thanks, Brian. I never thought I'd be relieved to have burned valves, but that's a whole lot better than rings! That's interesting about the intake valves. Off with her head! But don't go too far away. I'm going to need you guys to help me with the head R&R.

Here's a couple of prelim head R&R questions: first, what range torque wrench am I going to need. Some don't go below 25 lb.s. And what manual should I get? Should I get the CD's that someone mentioned you can order from MBUSA? Or is Haynes OK?

Brian Carlton 01-04-2007 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIESL (Post 1377601)
Thanks, Brian. I never thought I'd be relieved to have burned valves, but that's a whole lot better than rings! That's interesting about the intake valves. Off with her head! But don't go too far away. I'm going to need you guys to help me with the head R&R.

Here's a couple of prelim head R&R questions: first, what range torque wrench am I going to need. Some don't go below 25 lb.s. And what manual should I get? Should I get the CD's that someone mentioned you can order from MBUSA? Or is Haynes OK?

You need the 617 overhaul manual. The CD should do it. Haynes is worthless for this job.

I only used the torque wrench for the head bolts. 40 ft.-lb. is the first step, IIRC.

GRIESL 01-05-2007 04:52 PM

So, can burned intake valves cause a lot of blue tailpipe smoke?

Brian Carlton 01-05-2007 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIESL (Post 1378451)
So, can burned intake valves cause a lot of blue tailpipe smoke?

The fact that the seat is burned won't cause the smoke. But, the guides may have excessive clearance or the seals are shot. All cause more oil consumption than desired. It's more noticeable when the vehicle is not moving.

captainmonk 01-05-2007 05:30 PM

put a quart of Lucas in it every oil change and drive it 3 more years until it dies

thorsen 01-05-2007 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainmonk (Post 1378490)
put a quart of Lucas in it every oil change and drive it 3 more years until it dies

No, he would need "valve job in a can" for this one.

captainmonk 01-05-2007 06:09 PM

best fix for a lil blue smoke is not lookin out the back window this is idle blue smoke that clears under a load Do you wanna start rebuilding every truck at the truck stop look at thier exhaust!!!!!!!!!!!
And a lil lucas will seal up a lil leak and prolly extend oil additions another few hundred milers

Craig 01-05-2007 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainmonk (Post 1378528)
best fix for a lil blue smoke is not lookin out the back window .....

LOL, that's good.

Seriously, if you are planning on keeping the car just have the head done. ;)

GRIESL 01-06-2007 01:39 PM

Shop Manual
 
I may be shooting myself in the foot here, but could you guys look at this posting on ebay and let me know what you'd pay for this. I'm trying to get a FSM, either CD or book and I'm not having any luck. Someone posted that they bought CD FSM from MBUSA but I can't find a link to that. Any input on that would help me too. Thanks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBI%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320068599359&rd=1,1

gsxr 01-06-2007 03:46 PM

The printed manuals are getting rare, and are not cheap. You need a full set (engine, chassis+body, electrical, and climate control). That auction is for the engine manual only. I bet it could end up selling for $50-$100. The CD manual is available from your local dealership for about $100, but some of the PDF scans can be poor, depending on the chassis & manual. I have both the printed manuals and the CD, as well as the WIS.

You can also get a 'bootleg' copy from various sources, including eBay. Drop me a line if you want more info, or if you want a copy of the EPC (dealer parts catalog).

:kid:

GRIESL 02-01-2007 06:15 PM

Three different length head bolts....
 
Where do they go? Before I took the head bolts out, I glanced at the FSM and thought, "oh, well they've got drawings that'll show where each goes." Well, turns out the FSM gives a hint that the shorter ones go near the injector holes, but does anyone know where the other two length bolts go?

t walgamuth 02-01-2007 08:56 PM

the long ones go through the cam towers, iirc.

the really short ones go inside the cam chain housing.

tom w

GRIESL 03-03-2007 10:48 PM

Update: Thanks a bunch to everyone's help. I have about 300 miles on my new head from Metric. Tailpipe smoke hung around the first 100 miles and I got worried that I didn't fix much. But started fading and now I can observe that the new head has reduced my once embarrassing tailpipe smoke down to a gentle whisp. So far, can't observe any significant oil burning (Prior to new head, I'd have burned a half quart by now). I switched to Mobil 1 TD 5/40, so maybe that is contributing to that and the lesser amount of smoke--don't know for sure. The valves were shot! Carbon on everything under the guides. Couldn't tell if valves were actually burned, but they were definitely not seating with all that crap everywhere. Not even the ballsiest Italian could tune that one up! A few of the valves I could actually feel play in the guides. The car is much peppier now and starts right up in the a.m. I kinda wish we'd get a cold snap down in the teens or lower to see how she'd do--coldest we've gotten since the job has been down to 29 or so and fires on first crank.

Thoughts on the job itself. Not bad for moderate to slightly advanced mechanical ability. Takes a while, so I'm fortunate to have the Camry safety net car. Here's a few tips that I hope would help someone contemplating doing the same job I did. You seasoned veterans can stop reading right here, but if you've never done the job and you're contemplating it, perhaps my trials and tribulations can help. Manifolds should stay on when you pull the head--just makes it easy. Pull the head with an engine hoist. Remove fan and turn engine clockwise only with a 27 mm deep socket. Don't fool with turning with power steering pulley--that thing has to be removed for the job anyway. Paint marks on cam and timing chain and DO NOT rotate engine with cam gear off of timing chain. When turning engine over by hand, plug the chain tensioner hole with a rag, because that thing gets major oil pressure that spews out even just doing it by hand. Oh, FSM says to loosen up oil filter housing cap, but they don't say why. It's to let the oil in there drain to the pan. And when turning engine by hand, this will spew oil out as well if left loosened up. Don't worry about keeping tension on the timing chain while pulling the head out or after it's out--just lay it to the side (I laid it to the side and just to keep it out of the way tied it off with a bungee cord to the fender well). When loosening the cam gear bolt, block the back of the cam, because when that bolt comes off and there's no rockers holding it there, it will slide back and the timing washer will drop into the timing cavity. If that happens or if anything else drops down there, just close the hood and walk away until you're ready to continue which will entail pulling the engine. The IP and crank down below don't let go of the chain very easily. The rockers come off and go on in one position of the cam. If you're not on the right position, forget it. Keep turning. Seems to me the first set was about TDC or close on #1. And the second set was way beyond that on #4 or #5. But, reminder, don't do that unless you've got the cam gear on with chain attached. And when you're all done, turn the engine over 720 deg. just to make sure no valves are hitting pistons. Finally, keep plenty of Scotch around--satisfaction that it'd probably piss off a German Benz engineer that you're wrenching on his creation while savoring the drink of the technologically inferior Scottish.

Whew, I think that's it. If I think of anything else, I'll be sure to update. And thanks again to all you on this board that helped me out. I couldn't have done it without you.


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