240D 123 owners: *please* post your used oil analyses here... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

SUNRG · #1 12-18-2006, 10:14 PM

i'm beginning to UOA test a number of oils in my 1981 MB 240D 4M and i'm trying to gather data to compare my results to.

if you have done oil analysis(es) on a 123 240D please post your UOA results to this thread.

if you're interested in oil analysis but have not yet done it and need info/help to get started send me a PM. depending on the lab you use, used oil lab analysis will cost anywhere from $10 to $30.

[note: i realize many here know the following...]
UOA (used oil analysis) in nutshell: basically, you send a small used oil sample to a lab, the lab analyzes many different factors that determine oil quality, sends you back a report, and by comparing your report to previous UOA results from your engine (UOA trending) you can determine a lot about the internal condition of your engine. it's also very valueable to compare your UOA results with other UOAs from people with your the same vehicle/engine - this if the concept behind this thread.

TIA for your help and cheers!

tarbe · #2 12-19-2006, 07:01 PM

I'll be running an analysis on my 617.951 once I get done running the AutoRx clean, rinse and second rinse phases. About another 8000 miles

uberwgn · #3 12-19-2006, 07:24 PM

R, since everybody else is being a party-pooper, which isn't much of a surprise

, I'd be happy to post 3 UOAs from our E320 at 10k intervals or even a single UOA from my diesel W210.

Lemme know

Palangi · #4 12-19-2006, 08:44 PM

Here's my 240D when the head was cracked:

Oil Analysis and result

M.R. some scary numbers

#5 12-19-2006, 10:30 PM

It's not technically a 240D, but it's a 240D body.

SUNRG · #6 12-20-2006, 11:57 AM

Palangi & ForcedInduction - thanks for posting your UOAs. Palangi - even though your numbers were elevated am i correct in assuming the right column are universal averages provided by Blackstone for 240Ds? if so, that's really helpful.

Regarding the views that oil analyses are unnecessary: i respect your perspective and will not try to convince you otherwise.

discussing used oil analyses from my vehicles and others is a fun hobby for me. i have a CAT fluids analysis lab just down the road from both my work and home. they sell a 10 pack of UOA kits for $120 with free oil sample return shipping and 120' of sampling tube included. so at $12 per lab analysis it's not too expensive for me either. [they'll ship the 10packs anywhere in the country for under $10 UPS ground - 540.387.1111]

i personally do UOA trending on my vehicles to determine when an oil stops performing optimally. in the last oil fill in my VW, the 16,004 mile lab analysis showed the used oil [ELF Evolution CRV 0w30] was still performing optimally (equal to or better than new oil). it wasn't until somewhere between my 16004 and 18258 analyses that the wear rates began to climb. so in my VW, under similar conditions, i know there's absolutely no benefit to changing the oil before 15,000 miles. i could do occasional $12 UOAs on this vehicle to confirm that this continues to be true - and this could even save me money over just changing the oil every 3k, 5k or even 10k.

my 25yr old MBs is of course different from my 2yr old VW in enourmous ways. i hope to use my UOA hobby to determine which oils and viscosities perform best (reduce wear, increase fuel economy and performance, and safely extend oil change intervals).

i welcome anyone interested to follow this thread, contribute to it if you like, or ignore it

.

happy holidays!

SUNRG · #7 12-20-2006, 03:43 PM

i found the following here: http://members.rennlist.com/oil/test_results.htm (lots of MB diesel UOAs)

Notes: Fe wear rate = 10.67ppm / 1000 miles, viscosity sheared from a 50 weight down to a mid-40 weight

Vehicle - 81 Mercedes 240D
Oil - Mobil 1 15W50
Tot. Mileage - 180,507
Miles Since Last Change - 4,874
Status – Normal
Sample Date - 10/10/2004
Fe – 52
Cr – 5
Ni - <1
Al – 7
Pb – 2
Cu – 3
Tin - <1
Silver - <0.1
Ti - <1
Si – 5
Boron – 112
Na – 7
Potassium – 16
Moly – 45
Phosphorus – 1565
Zinc – 1546
Barium - <10
Magnesium – 460
Oxidation – 18
Nitration – 10
Vanadium - <1
Soot – 0.3%
Visc 100C – 14.5
SAE Gr. - 40

MTUpower · #8 12-20-2006, 04:57 PM

Hey folks-
OA's or UOA as called here, are a valuable tool and really the only sure way to determine when a oil change is needed. Remember that not all used oil is recycled properly, even if you dispose of it in the appropriate place. Using less oil is better for the planet. This is but one reason to utilize OA's. There are a host of others- but that is not the discussion here. The discussion in this thread is the results of the OA's themselves in the same engine and other similar engines. Please if you dont like OA's then dont bother posting that here- start your own thread about why you think they are a waste of time or whatever.
Now back to regular programming:
Are 617 non-turbo OA's of interest, or just the 4 cylinder version? I may be able to dig some of mine up.

SUNRG · #9 12-20-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Are 617 non-turbo OA's of interest, or just the 4 cylinder version? I may be able to dig some of mine up.

i'm personally interested in developing 4cyl/2.4L UOA knowledge base, but...

i enjoy looking at UOA reports so you're welcome to post yours here.

i started a thread like this in 2004 over at TDIclub.com. it was recently archived with probably 80 UOAs just from 1.9L PD-TDI engines.

cheers! [ps - thanks]

Palangi · #10 12-20-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRG

Palangi - even though your numbers were elevated am i correct in assuming the right column are universal averages provided by Blackstone for 240Ds? if so, that's really helpful.

Yes, you are correct, that is Blackstone format. It's hard to read because the forum software deletes the spacing.

I will try to dig up the UOA from after repair so you can see the good recovery.

jim314 · #11 12-20-2006, 07:54 PM

I guess this is going to be simplistic to most of you, but how do you tell how well the oil is holding up from the analysis? I see a lot of % showing the amount of metals and what the ideal amount should be. But what shows that the oil is worn out? I guess I just don't understand what I'm looking at.

#12 12-20-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim314

I guess this is going to be simplistic to most of you, but how do you tell how well the oil is holding up from the analysis? I see a lot of % showing the amount of metals and what the ideal amount should be. But what shows that the oil is worn out? I guess I just don't understand what I'm looking at.

They will say something like "Sample values are normal, safe for continued use." on the sheet. If there are any abnormally large numbers, most labs will call you as soon as they verify their results and alert you to a potential engine problem.

jim314 · #13 12-20-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

They will say something like "Sample values are normal, safe for continued use." on the sheet. If there are any abnormally large numbers, most labs will call you as soon as they verify their results and alert you to a potential engine problem.

Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering how you deciphered that from the figures.

Gurkha · #14 12-20-2006, 10:37 PM

UOA on OM616/617 depends on TBN, Soot% and of course, wear metals. I don't have easy access to oil analysis here in India, only big industries are catered to by the labs here, having said that, my own experience trying out different brands of oils for these engines, three oils stand out and do exceptionally well, mind you, in India, we are talking extreme heat, cold as well as huge monsoons, not to mention perpetual dust in some areas, any oil that comes with good numbers will do, Delo 400, Delvac MX and 1 all do superb in 6000KM drain intervals on the OM616/617 engines, have posted my internal pics at 72000 miles with OM616 turbo engine and you can have a look at that to see how they have done.

SUNRG · #15 12-21-2006, 06:21 PM

found the one below here - LINK it includes Blackstone's Universal MB 2.4L Diesel Averages as of JUL 2004:
Fe Wear Rate: 7.94ppm / 1000miles

1982 MB 240D, 4 speed. 185,000 miles. Delvac 1 with 5,040 miles on it, no make-up oil added.

What do you guys think about the Lead, Calcium, and Zinc, which appear a bit on the high side...?

I try to take care of this car, and I'd like to see it last for a good while longer. This car is a very strong runner, and starts right up.

Here is the commentary from Blackstone Labs:

PATRICK: Lead was the only element out of line in the first sample from your Mercedes 240D. The universal averages column shows typical wear from this type of engine after about 4,500 on the oil. You ran the oil a little longer, but not enough to account for the higher reading. Lead is typically from the bearings, and this level could show a problem in that area, though it may also be a one-time occurrence as well. All other wear looks fine and no fuel dilution or anti-freeze was present. The TBN was strong at 9.1. Suggest resampling in 4,000 miles to monitor lead.

ALUMINUM: My 240D=5 Average=17
CHROMIUM: My 240D=1 Average=3
IRON: My 240D=40 Average=58
COPPER: My 240D=3 Average=5
LEAD: My 240D=23 Average=9
TIN: My 240D=1 Average=1
MOLYBDENUM: My 240D=8 Average=15
NICKEL: My 240D=2 Average=3
MANGANESE: My 240D=1 Average=1
SILVER: My 240D=0 Average=0
TITANIUM: My 240D=0 Average=0
POTASSIUM: My 240D=12 Average=2
BORON: My 240D=50 Average=106
SILICON: My 240D=5 Average=10
SODIUM: My 240D=1 Average=10
CALCIUM: My 240D=3260 Average=1744
MAGNESIUM: My 240D=552 Average=744
PHOSPHORUS: My 240D=1396 Average=1143
ZINC: My 240D=1851 Average=1391
BARIUM: My 240D=0 Average=0
Insolubles (ie, soot) was at 0.5%, and fuel in oil was <0.5%